It's depend what metal they are using, My hope is it's compatible with some real steel parts then that would be easy to source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hytgHZAJCjQ

360 fps on propane. Soooo close!

I've heard varying reports from as low as 330fps, and as high as 390fps. Trying to find a consistency, and reasons for the wide variance, right now.

More reports on Arnie's. RS or other Airsoft foregrips aren't looking good.

Huge tank takes a long time to gas up.

Very hard to tear down.

Temprature and elevation?

One of the FCC boys got one for shits and giggles, it shoots nice but the fps fluctuate big time we are talking almost 40-50fps differerence I'm very interested in their reliability and whether it's worth it for me to sell my AS buckshot shottie

so, is it coming to canada?
 

When and how much it will be?

I'm hoping that Magpul PTS would be able to build the SGA stock and fore-end for it.

The one I have in my hands is making me very, very horny.

First impressions. Solid build, comfortable feel. Not supercharged about the gas reservoir being smaller than I expected but as far as fun to shoot, this thing is delicious.

Does it dry fire?

It does.

Ah damn, another gun ruined. :\

Thanks for the info, its the only thing that no one ever mentions in reviews.

i'll just leave this here for you all to judge
(Airsoft) Unboxing the M870 Tokyo Marui - KhanSeb - YouTube
i wonder if Tokyo Marui is willing to make an M1 Garand with this system?

After having just gamed it, it is a close quarters powerhouse. I mean, I wasn't even aiming as well as I usually do. It's got the range to compete with midrange GBBr openly.. but truthfully it is a CQB machine.

Hmm, looks like people have already made this thing mag fed. As a side note, check out how many rounds the M870 is able to put downrange before running out of gas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Ra0n0ucto-c

Is that an M4 mag in the mag well adapter?

Yup.

any teardown vids yet?
the M4 aeg mag is different, I like it
do you have to mod it internally to make it slam fire like that?
and since the mag tube is empty, how about a gas tank to fit in there, for pistol grip/masterkey setups?

I think they make and modify an adaptor fit in the shell load slot as a mag well, insert a aeg m4 mag loaded 400 bb's as long as the gas tank could handle it

why the hell would you do that?
thats just plain wrong.

It is the same people who install bipod and beta mag to mp5 and think it is LMG :)

Well it may look wrong, but its not wrong. It makes it look like a Grizzly shotguns : http://www.theammosource.com/images/Norincomagfed15.jpg

Grizzly shotgun (real steel) is for sale in Canada, non-restricted license. Price is just 399$

Tokyo Marui M870 was priced to me at ASC at ~700$! I actually join airsoft to save money. Now I am not sure I made correct decision. %-(

You didn't make the right choice if you're here to save money.

Thats why you just wait for someone to find a way to get them in at a more reasonable price. Rather than have someone rip you out the asshole simply because they understand a loophole better than you do.

No, you wait for TM to release a new version and then you scoop up the sales from the early adopters when they stampede for the latest release.

Start shooting it for a period of time, then you'll see the savings but only if you can restrain yourself from buying up more guns :D

I haven't seen savings for quite some time.

The Marui M870 is designed to do that, right out of the box.

Any Canadian retailers have this/can get this yet? For not ridiculous prices?

Feel like I'm searching for bigfoot.

My sources tell me that all of Hong Kong is currently out of supply, and are waiting for the next production run to complete and drop on them. ETA for next shipment is currently slated for January 2014.

4 months?! Are they growing them on the trees? My girlfriend can make a baby if you double it.

Seriously TM is loosing money. I am sure we will see cheap knockoffs and replicas into the next summer. It will be much harder to sell it then.

I hope this doesn't have to do with the "recall" rumored on arnies...

I'm not up to date on this "recall"... what's the basis of this rumor?

I highly doubt that.

For what it's worth, every single Marui release has encountered the same issue. This is not new. It's just more noticeable this time, as this is THE shotgun that everyone's been waiting for. Marui is doing their best to follow up on this demand, but they are not willing to sacrifice quality control just to pump out product on the street at the expense of quality.

Many Veterans who've played airsoft for a very long time have experienced different brands and whatnot. TM has never failed me nor do i see it doing so in the foreseeable future. obviously there are cheaper alternatives that one can buy, however veterans who spend TLC on their guns, usually tend to buy TM GBB Pistols due to reliability and upgradability. Its like comparing a Stock WE to a Stock TM Hi-capa for example. Yes the TM is made of ABS Plastic but it still out performs a Stock WE any day. Newer players may not want to dump hundreds or even Thousands of dollars into a TM pistol for example. does not mean that TM is loosing money because many people buy them as a base guns to build super awesome sexy guns like the ones ILLusion builds :D


TM still has their customer base and It was no surprise that the TM M870 sold out so fast. I have friends in HK that are trying to "monopolize" them as well.

@ILLusion, I'm sure it can be found in some small stores in Mong Kok, however all the large retailers like Redwolf,Ehob, UN and WGC have all sold out from what I know.

Saw some m870s from when my friend showed me a week ago when he faced timed me, some at Hero Arms and some small stores in MK.

Here ya go brian. http://www.tokyo-marui.co.jp/news/m870/ right off their homepage

But I'm sure they'll fix it, even the "legendary" tm 5.1 had a problem upon first release iirc (propane blowing out the bbu or something i don't remember)

I do not contest there are some group of hard-core TM fans, who will never buy any other product, but TM. But I do not think this group is dominant. Otherwise cloners like WE, KJW and others will never exist.

A lot of people will buy cheaper alternative if available. We dont need to flame is it good or bad [for them], but its just a fact. You always loose some profit if there is someone else on the market with comparable but cheaper product.


And my opinion about TM pistols: stock one - maybe they are better. They are definitely better after upgrades, but this makes their price 3x of stock WE. It makes sense only for competitive shooting or if you have a lot of free money. None of this is applicable to me and most others.

I don't see the problem honestly. You can buy a TM pistol for 280 bucks now. Sure, its plastic. But the thing lasts, and shoots great.

Buy a WE pistol. How long until it breaks? How well does it perform? Is the hundred bucks you're saving really worth it? The repairs that follow will eventually lead, and exceed the cost of what you're paying for a TM gun.

I've used WE pistols, I've used KJW and multiple other 'cheap' brands because I couldn't be bothered to pay that extra amount, and I end up wasting money down the line just to repair the damn things. I wouldn't say they're comparable unless you get one of those rare lemon-immune guns that somehow last forever. I wouldn't even classify them as comparable.

And whenever we get pistols on the workbench here... it always turns up to be a 'cheap alternative'.

I stick to TM and KWA/KSC for my sidearms now, You pay extra, but you pay for peace of mind and durability. I haven't regretted it.

That was because of the piston head o-ring design that they used. It had a bad tendency to blow out of its track when using propane, which caused a host of problems. This was quickly fixed with the piston head "cup" design that is still in use today. I still have a few of those old piston heads lying around. It's a nice piece of history on a Tokyo Marui screw up.

Tanio Koba was pretty quick to respond to that first issue, by releasing an aftermarket piston cup, which didn't really hold up well to propane use either. I have a number of torn TK Piston Cups here, but they did work better than the original piston heads, and was a decent band-aid solution till the H-43-26~27 piston cup design came out.



In regards to the "recall", thanks for the link. Reading through it, there is no mention of a recall at all, and it looks more like a troubleshooting QA that claims most of the problems encountered are due to user error. In almost all instances of problems, their answer pretty much looks to be a generic "RTFM".

As for the discussion about cheaper clones... they can go right ahead and clone the Marui M870 in its current state, but if there is in fact an engineering flaw in the design, then these clone companies will do exactly that: Clone the problems. Keep in mind, that R&D budgets for clone companies are literally $0. If there's a problem, they won't immediately look in to fixing it.

Also, I doubt they'll be able to clone and release a product within a 4 month time span. 8 year old Chinese child labour is fast, but it's not THAT fast.... or maybe it is. Get an entire village of children working in a sweatshop... I'm sure their nimble little fingers can move quickly. They move quicker when you threaten denial of a bowl of rice, or just plain whip them harder. LOL

The reality is that the cheaper alternatives don't tend to innovate.

If they did there would have been a host of gas shottys out there ahead of this one.

While TM might not crack out new stuff at a rate that keeps everyone happy they still crack out new and different stuff.

Sitting back and casting scorn at what they do and saying everyone would be better served by buying the cheaper copies of their stuff doesn't seem to be fully thought out.

I love Japanese toys and electronics engineering, but I couldn't afford it much. I love the clone version just because it's cheaper and if I broke it I wouldn't feel regret, most of the time I have to even spend more money to fix it and make it back alive! I would rather stick with Japanese version if I could the choice.

The callback seems true, my hongkong supplier can't get them until TM resolves the faulty O-ring.

I had heard a hop up issue was causing jams.

You will be surprised on how fast they can cloned a hot item....... Most of the japanese airsoft items the molds are made in China, in some cases within days or weeks of a release you will see the clones out in specialty shops in HK. I can almost guarantee that if you go to known clone shop like COP17 you will see a knock off TM shotty.

TM M870 clone will be ready soon in a couple weeks

Bad news everyone, The 870 gas tank is showing expansion and flex (very similar to the tanaka m700 gas mags) when used with propane....Very dangerous.

further results pending - alex


Pic jacked from arnies http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/7kno.jpg

Flex is very bad for metal pressure container.
Suddenly I dont trust RD department of TM anymore. They did not implement 5x safety then developing a compressed gas reservoir? Even kids can do better!

Is there some sort of ISO certification requirement to meet a 5x buffer? Is Tokyo Marui even ISO certified? As far as I know, they only design based on THEIR needs for ASGK requirements. ASGK does not require them to build to higher pressures, and they would actually PREFER that airsoft manufacturers did NOT design guns capable of handling higher power.

Looks like the exact same issue as the Tanaka M700 series, as Alex mentioned. I've already replaced all my M700 magazine inserts with (discontinued) billet aluminum replacements.

I've caught wind that CNC machined billet aluminum parts are being made for the Marui M870 gas tanks. No word on ETA or who will be branding it.

Lots of TM870's out there actually just that these stores have pretty much done them up and are selling them as "custom" guns.

Im very interested as to know how Hero Arms did the M870 In the picture below. it does not use the original Gas tank at all as you can see.
They used another alternative to the bulky m700 type gas tank.

the other pic shows alot of G&P accessories on them.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...46330806_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...24903977_n.jpg

Anyone has more data / input on the issue with propane??

I can't add to the propane discussion, but I did get to paw at one.

They're physically smaller than a real 870, and it's noticeable. With my hands being the size they are (large but not huge), it's borderline uncomfortable. Somebody looking for the best facsimile of a shotgun will be disappointed. The ergonomic issues therein can be fixed by adding a pistol grip, but they'll have to be made for this shotgun as real wood kits etc clearly just aren't going to work.

HOWEVER, the gun itself feels goodamn solid. Fit and finish is TM through-and-through. The pump action just rules. I have no doubt that this gun will become the golden standard of skirmishing shotguns. It's just... small.

Does anyone have further insight into it's guts? Could this reservoir issue be bypassed completely in favor of a remote line? Running one of these on a Co2 tank would be pretty ballin'.

I've had propane in my gas tank for almost a week now, and there has been no signs of bulging or warping. Tank goes in and out smoothly.

As for the gas resevoir, it most definitely looks like a candidate for a regulated HPA tank. I'm going to be dismantling the gun this weekend to try and fit a custom handguard to the foreend. I'll try to document, the process and get some photos of the breakdown.

I have yet to skirmish the gun but it's a lot of fun to toy around with. Range and accuracy are really good with both 3-round and 6-round modes.

Even on a cold day the gun was performing very well on propane, not so much on duster. I only managed to get a few shots off on duster in the cold weather (15 deg C).

Some good how to take down info in the Arnie's Airsoft thread.

Got mine; just in time for the weekend!

First impressions. Awesome! Wish it was louder though.

Will you use propane?

Depends on ambient air and how sensitive the people I'm shooting are.

No worry about the flex issue?

The gas tank will be okay as long as you aren't storing it fully pressurized and then under hot conditions. If you vent the gas after you're done it should be okay.

I have noticed a slight flex to mine after having it been pressurized for over a week on propane. I put it in a vice and squeezed it back with no issues and it still holds gas. I will avoid storing gas in there from now on.

In colder conditions, you almost have no choice but to use propane, on duster you don't get very many shots and it's horribly under powered with duster. You may be able to get some better performance using duster if you chilled the gas tank first and warmed the duster can before filling. I haven't tried that yet.

I've had propane in my gas tank for almost 2 months now. So far, my gas tank seems to be fine. Will let you guys know if I have any trouble with it.

I wouldn't consider 15C cold....but OK. More like 0C to 5C.

Reminds me of my old Maruzen M870 - I hope this model has more mileage on the seals than that one.

Pressure tank defect.
 

I just received TM 870 and under close examination I see some issues with pressure tank. Basically what you see is a small irregularities, biggest one is 1mm deep. I would not mind, but this is a pressure tank, and this look like a structural weakness in it. Is it?

I might send that tank back.

I really want a shell saddle on the receiver; nothing on the stock please.

If you use propane, like p.presh said, don't storaging with fully gas filled, the pressure of propane could push the end wall of the tank a bit wide open. Would it become trouble in long run, may be? Most or all of the Japanese airsoft are designed for HFC-134a, around 80psi. But propane is 130psi. Pot metal may not strong enough to hold it in shape. This gas tank is too wide and long inside, shouldn't only three lock pins for support, should at lease using one screw at the centre to hold the wall in place. If you just using HFC134a gas would be fine.

Are they any aftermarket propane tank going to be released?

Looks great

managed to get some work done on my m870.

added some real steel parts...
door breacher choke
shell extension tube
Magpul MOE fore end

I still have a heat shield which needs some modification to fit that I'll be adding later.

Nothing too fancy yet, just a home made bungee, red dot and some wrap. Trying to figure out a shell saddle.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps129dc215.jpg

Heatshield has been modded and added to the barrel.

I think I'm pretty close to done now. I may add a side saddle for shells if I can find something I like.

Where'd you pick up the extension tube?

adapted from a real steel extension tube.

Holy fuck. How much total was it to build something like that? :D

actually it wasn't too bad, aftermarket parts for the real steel 870 were relatively cheap, about $30-$40 each for the extra parts. I'd expect the airsoft version of these parts to cost around the same as well, in fact the Lay Lax extension tube is $50 already.

-MOE Grip
-Shell Tube Extension
-Choke Tube
-Heat Shield

It was having the work done to get it to fit that was probably worth more, but it helps to have a friend who is a machinist by trade!

Anyone seen green or white shells in stock anywhere?

Airsoft Extreme has them in stock. They even have the original red TM shells available.

I also carry the ACM shells if you're just looking for extra shells. They work perfectly fine in my shotgun (gas and spring) as well as everyone else I know.

I know they work, the new ones will look so much better in a saddle though!

Shotty looks good P.P!

Has the bugs with the gas tank been fixed with these yet? I've got a chunk of cash aside for one of these but the problems people have reported have kept me back.

Thanks. Nearly done.

I'm not too sure about this, the next batch is set to release in January and I guess that's when we'll all find out.

My prediction, is that the issue is not going to be resolved, and RA-Tech will step in to offer a reinforced version.

Cal, you can help me obtain one right? :D:D:D

you mean a M870?

Yeah, if you want one.... I just sold my last one, so you'll have to wait for the next batch in January.

Or if you mean other parts, then yes I can get those too. lol

I have them in stock

;) We will be in touch Cal...

Played with M870. Everyone was jealous :)
Note to players who want to use it as a primary for CBQ: you need extra gas tank or two.

Tank lasts about 2 shells (60bbs).

Yes Yaric!

Amazing gun, when I was holding it while you were tossing a nade upstairs it felt very very solid.

I'm not so sure you're gassing it up properly then...
I run it as a primary for a 45 minute CQB game and go through at least 10 shells (6 rds/shot) and then still have enough gas left over that I have to empty the gas tank before putting it away. And on my last game I filled the gas tank from a half full tank of propane.

Perhaps you're using duster and the duster can is nearly empty? I also found that the newer AI Duster adapters were too long on the stem for my MG Chemicals HFC134a can, alluding to very light fills.

Probably I was not, yesterday I used new propane tank, and gassed it for at least 5-7 sec, this increased number of shells per tank from 2 to 5.

MG changed their production on their duster cans and it has a black nipple on the bottles now that help feed more "air". However it is no good when using it with the AI duster adapter, like you said very light fills...
They should have stuck to the older design, the white little tip just like the traditional butane/duster cans.

Has the expanding gas tank issue been resolved?

For those that are interested, I posted details on the M870 pre-order in the AV Retailer's sections. Closes at the end of the month.

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=160863

Solved the saddle dilemma. Just need lots more shells.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps03a79e14.jpg

Nothing special.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...34610114_n.jpg
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/...32486247_n.jpg

Here is what my TM M870 looks like

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...227_135212.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...227_135146.jpg

This is how i fixed my tank, now it works great with no flex whatsoever.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...112_093331.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...112_093317.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...112_093257.jpg

Shell saddle out.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/g-p-shots...l#.UtxAObTTmHs

Saw a new TB inner barrel for it, worth it performance wise??

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/first-fac...l#.Uvu1EvT8Um8

Unrelated to TMM870, but this is being released soon..

http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/...APS-SG-CAM870M

I saw that on YouTube and thought it's really cool. 12 bb's per shot, pump action... I would've bought it if it weren't $500.

$500+ for an APS?

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...The-Jungle.gif

Shells galore.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps0ca7066a.jpg