Territory Control Poles / Domination Poles project build log
 

'Sup, been forever since I've been around ASC but old accounts never die!



I am working on a project named "Territory Control Poles" as a working name (it used to be "Domination Poles" but it seemed a good idea to steer clear of actual game names) and realized others might be interested, so I'm going to post some build log details in this thread. Been working on it off and on since early or mid 2012 at least.

The idea is that these panels are self-contained and wireless (and BB proof!) and have a small LCD and 3 buttons: Red, Green, and Blue. You can play as up to 3 teams together - teams being "Red", "Green", and "Blue" (shocker!)

The basic game is one of territory control - a lot like Domination in videogame land. Push and hold your color to 'capture' a pole. Once captured, the pole starts racking up points for you. Someone else can push THEIR color button to first uncapture, then capture the pole for themselves.

Team that ends the game with the most points, wins! Supports (in this version) from 1-3 poles at a time, with 1-3 teams. Will work indoors or outdoors.

Airsoft games in the past that I have played use this basic concept of territory control well but the "keeping track of shit" part always kind of sucks. Even the little things like coordinating over the radio for start / stop times and stuff can be a drag. This thing was made to take care of all that busywork and just let people play.



When it's done, it'll get installed at Capital Airsoft's indoor location for testing and indoor play. I've known Jeff at Capital Airsoft for a while and they helped make this happen. :salute:

I recently got the circuitboards I designed and ordered, so things can move up a notch in the "getting done" list.

http://i.imgur.com/dUBpEkdl.jpg

I don't have much for photos of the system (it is working as a test/development setup) but one of the reasons for this thread is to change that and help document it. :)

I want some!

This is one of the times that I wish I am a real engineer.

Awesome !! Looks like the boxes that were made for Battlefield themed games here in Quebec, nice work !!

What did the Battlefield ones use as a case? (I'm not familiar with them, been out of the loop with regards to organized airsoft for a while.) Wood and a lexan cover is probably what will happen with these first ones. Pelicans would be my first choice but that's expensive.

Anything about the Battlefield ones that worked or didn't work particularly well? I haven't field tested these yet (that's coming) so any opportunity to learn from someone else's work helps save time in the end.

Will you be selling these for other fields Don?

They are the electrical control type sealed box

Very nice and welcome back.

1) Can you run a visible indicator to show who's got control? We used flags and pulleys for a low tech approach and a marker that was visible at a distance to see who was holding a base. Maybe for outdoor extra lights on a long lead?

2)can you make the boxes talk to each other? Time the game, lock down when all the boxes on the net are blue etc.?

a 12v or even relay output for the 3 color's would allow a person to inpunt 12 or 120vac and plug in strobe light or such to show who is in control?

I'm assuming Domination is the CoD term for Conquest?

Thanks, it's cool to be back here. ASC's always been a central happenin' place and that doesn't seem to have changed.

Brilliant! I know those things - great choice!

Sure! I do electronic work as a job, so I would be A-OK with doing a small production run. But no counting chickens before they hatch - there will be a bit more work to be done once this first unit is up and running before that can happen; there are always changes needed that get discovered in the first unit / prototype.

And of course, when it's done the code and diagrams will be available so anyone with the skill and time and desire could make their own (as well as improve it). I'll say right now - a lot of the programming in there right now is pretty ugly and purely of the "make it work" variety. :rolleyes: I can think of like a billion improvements it could use right off the bat and people better at it than I could probably see two billion without even trying.

Here is what one of the dev units looks like right now.
(The RED board sticking out the top is a test for audio playback)
http://i.imgur.com/KeIV9bol.jpg


The units are wirelessly connected to each other and scores are synchronized across all of them during a game. The LCD shows not only the status of the current box, but also the statuses of all the others. The pile on the right side of the photo is an LED string. It fills up and down to visually indicate status and ownership. Of course, the LCD also prominently displays current status and ownership at all times.

The LEDs are mainly for indoor use or lower light outdoor use because LEDs aren't all that visible outdoors in bright sunlight. When it comes to daylight-readable indicators I'm a little torn between very high-brightness lights, and motorized brightly-colored signs/flags - and the fewer moving parts the better and the more BB-proof the better. There are surely options I haven't thought of, though. If anyone has any bright ideas on that, I'm all ears!

That all being said, the LED strings are going to be enough for the scope of this first version, which will live mainly indoors for testing.




I was going to address some of the other questions quoted here too but I realized I could answer these and other questions much more efficiently with some "screenshots". I'll do that and post it.

Welcome Back Don, You and your cats are missed.

WOuld it be possible to connect or program the boxes to a radio? The purpose would be to communicate to the players that an objective is under "tan" control or green

Hey, howdy!

A PA system that pipes audio over FRS radios (for example) would be bad ass. A long time ago I tested doing that and it worked, I have my notes somewhere.

But not for this version - the audio output is strictly an amp with some speakers. I love the radio transmission idea though, maybe I should follow that up once this is up and running.

Wow cool project Don, looking forward to seeing it in action!

Hey Kokanee, how you doin? :)

Here are screenshots I mentioned. These aren't ALL of them, but gives you a pretty good idea of the features and flow of the thing.

RED, GREEN, and BLUE buttons are used for game play, and as input for menus.

http://i.imgur.com/0UAPDlel.jpg

Only 2 units in play in this test (up to 3 work at the moment)
http://i.imgur.com/bsCelZzl.jpg

These are the two built-in simple games at the moment:
http://i.imgur.com/yPojMlHl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eEIQw7Bl.jpg

By the way, any of the units can be used to select a game and teams.
http://i.imgur.com/gKTrbIsl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0yOS1FRl.jpg

Then there is a countdown once READY is confirmed.

Sample start of game screen where nothing has happened except 15 seconds have gone by.
http://i.imgur.com/FrxdAA2l.jpg

Pole #1 has been captured by BLUE (we are Pole #2)
http://i.imgur.com/pMYnaSnl.jpg

Scores explained (these numbers are all changed in real time as the game goes on)
http://i.imgur.com/A9LmpHDl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dYuQ7ell.jpg

Here is one of the pages of scores. Didn't get a pic of the others since my RED button is currently disconnected (heh) waiting for a firmware upgrade to be done to recognize the new one.
http://i.imgur.com/oBdWVC4l.jpg

And here is a picture of my disapproving cat for no reason.
http://i.imgur.com/y28hBvnl.jpg

Awesome! Put me down for one of these ASAP :)
The radio feature is damn cool idea. as well as the wireless, whats the range like?
Still love your skill project :)

HURRAAYYYYY KIIIIIITEH!!!!!!!


Great work Don. Glad to see you are doing very well.

We still need to get together for drinks and wings.

We sure do!

Thanks for the interest in getting one, PrIeSt - don't want to count any chickens before they hatch but things look promising.



Range is a tricky thing. It needs line of sight for optimal range and generally any living thing (leafy trees, meaty humans, etc) are really good at stopping/soaking up radio signals. Antenna position is also important (the higher the better). I don't want to make any promises about range until I have had a chance to actually test things under practical conditions.

That being said, unless something is actually blocking the radio signals, these units will be able to operate over longer ranges than you'd ever actually reasonably play a game over.

Interested in this

Glad other people are interested! I'm scouting out some case options. Also doing a few tweaks to the hardware.

Amanda Wozniak (daughter of Steve Wozniak and a very talented engineer) very astutely said "When you have something working, you are 15% done and the fun part is over." :D


Will post up more pics once there's more to see. Actually, I realize I haven't shown the LED lights yet, I'll try to put up a couple pics of those next.

I will take 5 units as soon as you can build em.

Very excited to buy these as well. Can not wait!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Thanks :) - you'll all be the first to know!

Not much that is worth any pictures going on so far, but I have found some suitable cases to use - so the beta test going into wood panels is out and nice ABS enclosures are in!

Mainly been speccing enclosures, and also sourcing Lexan faceplates to protect the front face. Important stuff, but not anything to look at (yet).

We'd be interested in 3 units for our Vietnairn field, depending on costs of course :)

Thx

With all the interest in these you should setup a kickstarter and get some funding to go into production. (Once the prototype is completed, of course) :)

At the Battlefield game, they used metal electric box I think. The systeme was a bit simpler. Flashing strob lights, capture siren, capture button to hold while capturing. All the electronic was hidden inside. They did not talk wirelessly to each other I think, due mainly to the field size.

But we could tell wich faction captured wich tower, as the light was flashing for their colour. And when they where trying to capture, we could hear the ciren. Overall, it was an effective setup. I was quite impressed.

I'm pretty sure there is pictures or videos of them floating around.

The enclosure you can use for that kind of project are called project box

http://www.thesource.ca/estore/categ...language=en-CA

That's a good idea. The thought had crossed my mind, but it is still a very good idea!


Thank you for the details. That does sound very effective. I like a lot of those ideas. It's also very easy to get feature-happy with all the things that *could* be done. Just have to get something working finished and installed to get Beta-tested. Nothing answers questions like a good Beta test!


I'm using something like that, made of ABS or PVC but much larger and with some anchor points.

I was going to mount the buttons on the front, but I think that I'll put them on the bottom side (so they need to be pushed "up") to keep them out of the line of fire so they don't catch too many BBs. The buttons are tough but I think the lower the profile they have, the better.

Putting them on the lower side of the case is an easier solution than putting some kind of BB-proof cover over the things. But maybe I'm worrying about nothing?

Chris, the guy who made the boxes for battlefield, used electric control boxes. He used a programmable PIC chip for the scenario programs.

I'd recommend using industrial push buttons on it instead of those arcade machine style ones. They are more suited for the outside.

And for those who played The battlefield games, there is more then the capture the flag scenario that is programmed in those. The possibilities are amazing.

Is invest into a kickstarter for this. If I could peanut two or three units with my donation!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Not a lot to look at, just a couple shots of the front panel and mounted LCD. Gives you an idea of what I'm putting together.

The covered material is a piece of Lexan I cut for purposes of BB-proofing the LCD face. It will be masked off on the inside, with a clear window for the LCD to be viewed.

Unless you own a router or some kind of CNC cutting tool (which I do not) then cutting LCD holes into panels totally sucks and is impossible to make it look clean. This way the hole can look like it was cut by a blind woodsman and thanks to the bezel/faceplate all will look clean and professional from the outside. :D

http://i.imgur.com/8jn9s7yl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/d3U41Vll.jpg

Will have some new info to share soon - and as a side note, a hole saw in this tough ABS is a total pain in the ass. Oh, it cuts nicely enough but the ABS disks get stuck inside the hole saw something fierce. :(

I wish I could laser-cut ABS, that would solve things nicely. I kind of wish I had a CNC mill - milling out the ABS faceplate is the right way to do this.

http://i.imgur.com/jtacIPRl.jpg

It's important to recess the LCD into the box prior to putting the Lexan on. The Lexan might be BB proof, but whacking it with a BB while it's in contact with the LCD means giving the LCD quite a jolt regardless of stopping the BB or not. Better to have the LCD isolated from the lexan cover.

Also sticking with plain old buttons front and center for this unit.

Just a heads up, doing some boring software work as well as bits and bobs of mounting things. I know it's boring to look at right now, but all this groundwork will pay off once all 3 poles are up and running.

http://i.imgur.com/mMba9TAl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VWdbEDtl.jpg

Lots of work done embedding the hardware into the enclosure and non-sexy work like deciding where and how to anchor stuff and secure what and where.

This unit (still a prototype) is now completely living in its enclosure for the first time.

The lexan cover for the LCD is not shown in this photo.

http://i.imgur.com/SADeJehl.jpg

Would it be possible to have weighted capture points?
For instance, a captured device at the edge of the field could be worth 2 points per minute, whereas a more central point could generate 5 points per minute.

That way a harder objective would be more rewarding.

Very cool, I had this exact idea for field use, of course I'm not the type of guy who has the technical skills to make it work... I can envision the layout, design, overall function of the project, but can't figure out the little details lol... Good to see someone else had the same idea as me! Would love to implement them in the future...

The ability to weight different capture points and add a 'score multiplier' for them is a neat idea. I like the idea of being able to make easier to defend locations "worth" less and harder to defend ones worth more for example.


I'm sure I'm not even close to being the first to have the idea - videogames for example nailed it far before I came along. :p

The actual making it work part is always much harder than I expect it to be. on the surface it's pretty simple but the devil is always in the details and the implementation always winds up leading to changes and evolution of the original idea anyway.

I love this idea, I hope it works. I will be watching for further progress and possible availibility for in the future.

So when do pre-orders start?:D

Agreed, I can always envision how it'll be implemented, where, why etc, general design and function but I would never be able to actually make it on my own. I'm looking at that spaghetti of wiring you have in there and just about went cross-eyed lmao.

If I manage to open my own field in the future (hopefully no one gets upset about me trying?... Not sure where just yet still planning it out) I'd love to use this set up... Even have my own ideas for unique games and scenarios, field layout etc. Just need a lot of money lol...

They're still a ways from beta testing, let alone pre-orders - but you guys will be the first to know!

It's been a while but not because nothing has happened!

I have moved on from tough-to-work-with (and pretty expensive for what you get) PVC equipment boxes to laser-cut wood boxes for the beta testing.

http://i.imgur.com/UcstEjsl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MutwhmTl.jpg

That extra hollow rectangle is a standoff for the LCD so that the face of the LCD is sunken down a bit from the face of the box. This allows me to BB-proof it by slapping Lexan over it all, but also ensures that the Lexan won't touch the LCD.

Lexan is impervious to BBs but will still flex when hit. That flexing can still transmit shock to the LCD which will damage it. Problem solved, and in a simple and straightforward way! Also a very strange and elusive software bug is running out of places to hide and is living on borrowed time.

These are the kinds of unsexy problems being solved prior to closed Beta tests :)

Very cool, this I love and the fact they are wireless..
So they will show each teams time compounded on each screen?

Hopefully you can set these to activate a relay, I have access to AC power and could run some pretty cool strobe lights on these :)

So my prototypes have been delivered and are undergoing testing!

Just as a note so we're not crushing dreams here, the investment into having Don develop these was roughly more than a decent mid/high end mainstream AEG. Per unit.

I'm going to try and get a demo video of these done and uploading today.

As for range, inside the store (only 3000sq/ft) there are no range issues at all. When I stuck a box in my big metal box of a vehicle for a drive, it lost signal as soon as we left the parking lot. Going to get these to a playing field ASAP to test the range in real conditions.

One note Don and I discussed is being able to have multiple options for antenna and lights.

1. Antenna inside the box (for indoor use)
2. Antenna extension running up the "pole" with the actually antenna at the top 8 or 10 feet in the air (for outdoor use)

Hmm prototypes are out eh?

As I said before a relay trigger option would be nice, allowing the owner to select what/how they wish to show who is in control.
longer antenna would be great, but with that, to be effective you need more power not just a longer antenna. so would it still be portable?

According to Don the radios are more than powerful enough, what I mean is not a longer antenna, but simply mounting the antenna as high as possible.

That would be handy yes :) Even indoor's when possible. interference pop's up pretty quickly. dozen guys with cell phones in their pocket for example :)

I like the idea of a general-input relay, for attaching whatever someone could think of. Definitely on the list.


Software and hardware changes are still expected down the road, the beta testing will (among other things) find out what does and doesn't work well and what needs improvement.

Developing in hardware is a lot like developing in software, except that every time you hit "compile" it costs money. And takes weeks/months instead of seconds/minutes.

The general input for me would be perfect if you had a cord coming out for 120v application and 3 plug's on top for 3 devices (such as Strobe lights etc.) Pretty cheap and simple to add 3 relays :)

You could even maybe present a dumbed down version. without the wireless etc. for people who just want a single domination point. (smaller fields, teams with less money, etc.)

Updates Don? Take my money!!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Time to invest in a few more claymore's guys :)

Take my money!!!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

At first.. I did not really like this idea.. but as I turned it over in my head a bit.. I started to see a lot of creative ways to employ these devices.

Watching this thread...

I'm exploring a few other ideas with it right now. I'd love to let people place pre-orders but it would be irresponsible for me to to do; I know it looks close to being done but I know (I do electronics design and manufacture for a living) there is still too much waiting between "now" and "finished". But when it gets to that point, you will all be the first to know!

So.... How goes it?!?!?

I finally will have a venue to test these in a week or two, so updates very soon!

Updates?????

http://vid305.photobucket.com/albums...psf40cddd2.mp4
*cough*

Lots of lessons learned. For example, indoors versus outdoors tend to play VERY differently and have different needs. This means that indoors you want immediately useful information, it's not as useful to (for example) know which team is winning by exactly how much. It's more useful to know who is winning RIGHT NOW so you know what you should do RIGHT NOW. And other little usability things. Details matter.

I have been developing but it takes turns with other commitments.

The hardware I posted about is running games very successfully at Capital Airsoft's indoor facility in North Edmonton.


That looks like a nice successful test :)