Ban on "toy" guns in Toronto
 

This was in the Toronto Star. I figured you guys would be interested as the description of "toy guns" is extremely close to the description of airsoft.

Ban on toy guns in mayors' sights
They can fool police, bylaw backer says Move by Scugog could spread in GTA
Feb. 16, 2006. 06:26 AM
STAN JOSEY
STAFF REPORTER

Mayors around the GTA will be asked tomorrow to endorse a ban on kids possessing toy guns in public.

The move to prohibit anyone under 18 from having toy guns in public spaces is being led by Scugog Mayor Marilyn Pearce, whose township north of Oshawa was the first in Ontario to enact the ban last month.

The mayors and regional chairs throughout Greater Toronto and Hamilton will meet in Keswick tomorrow.

"I am hoping all of the municipalities in the GTA will come on board on this initiative to get toy guns off the streets," Pearce said. "It is really about protecting children and I don't know how anyone can have an issue with that."

Pearce said it was an "alarming" number of "scary" incidents involving the toys over the last year that prompted the town council to act.

"The concern was that these realistic toy guns are being used by children in such a way that a police officer might be forced to shoot first and ask questions later," she said.

Durham Region Council yesterday discussed instituting a similar ban region-wide, but on legal advice referred the matter to its local municipalities for consideration.

Under the Scugog bylaw, the "possession" of toy guns in public places by anyone younger than 18 years old is punishable by a $150 fine. Imitation or replica guns are legal for anyone older than 18 unless used in committing crime.

Durham Region Const. Todd Petzold said officers would use discretion in enforcing the bylaw and would not be issuing tickets to 8-year-old children.

"In those cases, I would take the child home to the parent and inform them of the dangers of playing with these toys on the streets," he said.

"There is no problem with children using these toys in their homes, but if you take a realistic-looking toy gun on the street, you could be in danger."

He also said that since Scugog passed its bylaw in January, some kids have started turning their toy guns in to police.

"I have received several of them from children who said they just did not want them now that the bylaw had been passed."

Petzold, a community police officer who works in Port Perry area schools, held up a plastic toy pistol that originally had come in orange but had been painted black so that it "looked and felt like my police-issue Glock sidearm."

Petzold said some of these weapons cost as little as $2 in discount department stores.

He said that, under federal law, the sale of replica or imitation handguns is prohibited to persons younger than 18.

"But that hasn't stopped parents from buying these very realistic-looking toys for their children."

Pickering councillor Maurice Brenner commended Scugog, a community of 23,000 surrounding Lake Scugog about 65 kilometres northeast of Toronto, for having the "courage" to pass this bylaw.

"We used to play Davy Crockett with cap guns when I was young, but I guess you just can't do that any more," he said.

The Scugog bylaw declares "no person who is less than 18 years old shall possess a replica firearm or imitation firearm while on public property or on private property to which the public has general access." An imitation firearm is defined as "any device that is designed or intended to resemble a firearm or replica firearm or may be reasonably mistaken as a firearm."

"Before this bylaw in Scugog, if we found a young person on the street with an imitation handgun we couldn't do anything," Petzold said. "Now we can take the gun, talk to the young person and we don't necessarily have to lay a charge."

He said the big chain stores such as Canadian Tire and Wal-Mart usually would not sell any replica or imitation gun to anyone younger than 18.

However, he said the rapid growth of "dollar discount stores" has resulted in $2 replicas that fire plastic bullets being sold to customers of any age.

"Where we have found this happening we have talked to the store owners and they have readily complied with the law or taken them off the shelves," he said.

Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair said that while there isn't a toy gun ban in Toronto, a police program called Gunplay No Way works with community partners in exchanging in toy guns for less violent toys.

with files from Vanessa Lu

Here we go again....

Interesting, they appear to interpreting the law in our favour...

It is nothing we haven't been advocating already... people under 18 should not own these replicas and NOBODY should be playing in the street with them.

I think it is a good thing.

this law looks like it goes for realistic water guns, cap guns and non functional lil kid toys. Gay.

When I was little, we would run around neighborhoods with toy capguns that were full metal and looked damn realistic. I think I still have an old capgun luger around here somewhere. I think that the soccermoms of the world need to get punched.

Sounds good to me, maybe now after a few parents have to end up paying the 150.00 for thier kids maybe some of them will stop buying thier kids airsoft and putting the sport and thier kids at risk.

I'm not going to say every minor isn't deserving or mature enough to own or play airsoft, but we all know including any truely mature minors that it's about legalities and following the law.
Even though there is the odd "I'll do what I want, n play where I want" type teenie bopper on here I know they don't represent the maturity of every minor out there, but the law is the law.

To me it just sounds like somewhat of an enforcement of laws saying minors shouldn't own or posses replica's in view of the public.
Like I said sounds good to me.

under 18 and in public...

Airsofters don't wave them around in public and that is why we like over 18...

This will be closely followed by the "No snacks before suppertime" by-law and the "no staying up past bedtime" by-law. Soon, we'll have the "no swearing in public" by-law to make sure those bad bad people don't scare somebody with their foul language. Then we'll have the law banning ugly people because they're scary too.

Shit, why don't we just impose a Dictatorial rule in Toronto so we can all be safe doing exactly what the city tells us is right and propper.

This is obviously aimed at creating another tool to punish gangbangers carrying guns, be them toys or real. Cause you know, they'll listen.

no change...
 

I can't see this applying to super soakers.. and that is not what they are saying.

it seems clear that the bylaw is designed to limit the use of replica firearms and imitation firearms by kids in public.

There is already in place a Federal Criminal Code law prohibiting possession of replicas by anyone under 18. But on the enforcement side it is very unlikely to see kids playing with guns charged under the criminal code.
A bylaw with a fine is likely to serve as a more effective deterent than a criminal charge that will rarely be enforced.

Anything that keeps replicas out of the hands of minors is a good thing in IMO.

This is the only bit out of the whole speil which is really worrisome to me. Pball places are private property generally accessible to the public. Under the current definition of the bylaw, we could be prosecuted for playing in pball arenas.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what the definition of "accessible to the public" means. Pball fields won't let people walk on without eye protection or signing a waiver and usually paying a fee. That is probably restricted access of some kind.

only if you are under 18, which is moot anyway as no one under 18 can have replicas in their possession, unless accompanied by their parent or legal guardian.. which is the typical requirment for minors anyway...

so ... still no change

Who the fuck is gonna ENFORCE this? I mean really.

Currently there are teens running around shooting people with REAL GUNS. There is a LAW against that (at the Federal level), which is currently (and obviously) unenforceable in this city.

If we can't stop the real ones, how the fuck are we gonna stop the toys ones?

(Claayyyymoooore...wheeeeeeeeere aaaaaaaaaaaaaaare yoooooooooooouuuuuuuu?)

Actually come to think of it, defining "posession in public places" instead of "brandishing in public places" is significantly stronger. It means that having an imitation firearm concealed in a bag is an offence. I see no clause allowing public posession in the presence of a legal guardian. I guess the bylaw will remove implied open or concealed carry for minors!

but what gives them the right to be searching through your bag?

As with all bylaws... they are enforced by bylaw officers.. when they recieve a complaint.
there could be roving bands of youths armed with a variety of replicas... if no one complained .. no one would care to see the bylaw enforced.
Without the lesser offence of the bylaw infraction availible as an enforcement tool ... the only option is to charge with a criminal offense, which in the case of brandishing a replica in public by a minor.. is unlikley to happen

Bylaws such as this will probably be more effective in reducing the proliferation of replicas within the underage community than the Criminal laws, that simply are not being enforced due to the dire consequences of pressing such charges. (court costs, court appearances by police, ect.)

This is awesome!
Ok someone has to correct me if I am wrong. The the way that I read it, I see nothing that says people over the age of 18 (ie me) cannot own, transport, or use replica firarms.
There is also nothing that says I cannot brandish them in public.
Is there some other law that I am unaware of?
I was under the impression that replica's were illeagle to ANYONE. That is why airsoft is in constant jeapordy. I thought they are in kind of a grey area, being not really a replica because it can fire bb's, replica's being defined as "non-firing".
Does this mean airsoft is actually legal?

You thought wrong... Jeez have you read the law?

We have talked about this exact issue at TTAC3 many times Man Solo.. and you were in the room....but clearly not listening...

Airsoft weapons have never been illegal....but they are proscribed under the criminal code... as long as you agree that they are replicas, Of course some people still cling to the idea that something sold on the basis that it is a 1:1 replica of a real weapon is not in fact a replica.

Replicas are the only prohibited devise that you can own and transport without a license if you are over 18.

There is nothing in the definition of a replica that says anything about firing, non firing..bla bla bla.. A replica is anything that looks like a firearm but is not a firearm.. full stop.

The relevant sections of the Criminal code are posted at www.ttac3.factoronto.com

I'm not interested in debating this... Read the law..
I've talked to the police.. criminal and civil lawyers .. and I assure you the status of replicas is anything but grey.
The only thing grey or hazy is most people's understanding of the law... evident from your statment.

This is pointless and i HIGHLY doubt it will work even if it becomes a reality because what do kids do when they can't afford or find a toy gun ? they make one be it one they cut out of wood themselfes (i did it ALL the time) or a simple stick ( strangely enough you CAN find some stick that could be mistaken for a gun if your not right next to it)

This looks like a good thing!

The mayor and police should focus all their effort in fighting against REAL gun shot crime committed by the gangsters first. Period.

Fixed and i fully agree with you.

Another bylaw aimed at pussifing people. Argh, soccermoms should be punched in the ovaries so they cant be moms anymore.

I dunno. I can sort of understand this... so long as it only applies to "replica" looking guns. I look at it as a way of protecting police from the possibility of shooting a kid who turned out to be carrying a fake. Hell, the coolest toy guns I ever had - dart guns, nerf, supersoakers - didn't look real in the slightest. Banning those would be too ridiculous for words.

i just saw this on city tv....they showed box loads of springers...didnt know what brand but most of them had orange tips..

The reason why they are addressing this because a few days ago a police officer was shot in the ear with a pellet gun by a bunch of 12-14 yr olds

How about we ban everything previous generations did as kids so soon no kid will go outside ever!!! That way they can all become morbidly obease fucktards who play Halo all day while yelling at their mom to bring them more ice tea until the forklift comes to move them to the couch for the next exciting episode of American Idol

This is an excellent bylaw.

My only concern is that soccer moms will push this bylaw so that it extends to airsofters above the age of 18.

I've seen a few stupid high school kids near the bus stop using dollar store cap guns and shooting into the air....If I was a cop I'd just shoot the fucker and be like...oh he pointed it at me...

As much as I do agree with going after the crooks and not honest joe here... I do like the idea of having the law against 18 yearolds... cause then we don't have to put up with... "I'm a responsible 15 year old looking for some advice and a place to play"... and when told to wait three years.. he chances his profile age to 19!.... we just say.. "no... against law... nothing more..."... :D... save us all some time and patiences

Seems like a good thing to me. 8 year old kids playing with realistic cap guns will not be bothered because nobody will call the cops on them and a passing cop wouldn't care. This bylaw allows cops to actually fine those 16 year olds who shoot air pistols at people and break the windows of neighbours. Before, the cops would just take their guns away, but not do anything further, because criminal charges seemed a little heavy handed. Now, they, or their parents, will be fined $150 so the point comes across more clear.

just saw this on global news. as far as i see it, the guns looks like just plastic look alikes that don't fire anything, and besides they all had orange tips on them

YEEEEEAH! I'm over 18! Downtown streetside airsoft games coming up!...followed by my funeral. At least I'll die in style.

It already is.. against the law.. the criminal code.. No one under the age of 18 can have replica firearms in their possession. full stop, I can't figure out why people put up with minors now... they can't own airsoft.. so how can they participate!!!???

Also practically every municipality has laws against the discharge of air guns within city limits already. I bumped up against that one recently at my field south of Acton.. but turns out were we conduct our OPs is ok. It is only restricted .. not prohibited

All the proposed bylaw adds is that it would now be contrary to a bylaw for anyone under the age of 18 to have replica or imitation guns in their possession.. they don"t have to discharge them to be breaking the law.
It is already illegal.. but a fine is much more likley to be enforced than a criminal charge.

but kids use the excuse... "Its not illegal for me to use an airgun its only illegal for me to buy one until I'm 18..."... they use the term airgun... instead of replica... but anyway... that aside... the law also states that no one under 18 is legal to fire any firearm... if they uped it to airgun it'd force the airguns to go into the same category as say a .22 long rifle... BUT... if they did this... just put the age restriction and the use of said weapons REQUIRE direct supervision... sorta like the current law regarding minors hunting with parents that they have to share the rifle/shotgun and the parent has to be with in 50ft of the kid holding it... not just firing it... but carrying, handling, loading, un-loading...


Anyway... yeah... the fine will help greatly... I think... hope... but at the same time... someone pointed out the "soccer-mom" issue of trying to push the anty up...and try to ban them ALL for good... somethings gotta be done to help this gun control issue... but so far all I see are steps being taken to take guns from honest people...

Today it was announced on the radio that Ottawa's Gun Amnesty has recovered 500 guns total plus ammo... but what bothers me... is the Amnest is now closed... which is DUMB... why make two weeks of the year free to turn in guns?!... I mean... seriously if an owner wishes to dispose of his/her guns responsibility and quickly... then there should NOT be a god damn time set for it... one should be able to call up the cops ANY time of the freaking year and say... "Look... I just don't want the hassle anymore"... or what ever... but why are these laws and time sets and all this crap targeted at the guy who collects them!? or goes hunting with his kid?... or has the one his father gave whos fathers gave his father whos fathers father gave his... you get the idea right?... Where as here is the plain simple truth.. ban = more... if you want proof look at the alcohol ban in the 50's... the mob got rich... the people got so freaking wasted... and the police got killed!... THATS what we need... only now... its lethal shit...


so... all for 18+ regulations... not for laws and regulations leading to the disarming of honest people...

What's even worse is that the majority of those guns are antiques and guns otherwise owned by responsible individuals. The ones that need to disappear, the illegal ones, are only found in seizures or in the hands of dead gang bangers.

thats why US responsible ppl over 18 and verified and also retailers SHOULD ask for id EVERYTIME they sell..ask for 2 peices of ID..just to be sure..and i aint to worried im over 18 and i got an arsenel at my basement...so to you YOUNG fuckers out there..there probably spoiled too..BEWARE NOW...lol..

*clarification* it was the 20's (but good point, and the same could be said for the reefer too ;))

I kind of agree, however... the thing you guys are missing is that these "gangbangers" (some of whom are in fact not dead upon the recovery of these weapons) are getting a lot of their guns by stealing them from the collectors.. or getting them from someone else who stole them. so it's really more of a complex issue than you're making it out to be. that being said, i don't really know how this thread about replica/toy gun by-laws turned into one about the debate over real firearms.. lol. but yeah, the by-law sounds like a good thing so far, and the problems expressed by others regarding the soccer-mom factor are shared by many, and are quite troubling :(

I just don't understand why there is this sudden turn on replicas. Yes they are replicas and look real, but don't fire real rounds... How exactly is this a bad thing? If anything, I'd feel safer being mugged with a replica rather than a real steel pistol, that way if mr.criminal gets jumpy, I don't get dead.

I keep seeing the arguemnt of "what if a cop has to shoot a kid". Does anyone have a stat on if this has ever happened in Toronto? If the issue is gang bangers using them for crimes, fuck the gang bangers. If you knock over a 7/11 with your hand in your pocket looking like a firearm, your still charged with Armed Robbery, so why would replica's be any different?

Could someone please show me a rational argument, with facts behind it, about why replicas should be prohib in any form?

As someone from Scugog township where mayor pierce is from let me say they don't take this lightly, a friend at work had to pick her daughter up from north durham police station about two weeks ago after she was picked up for being in possesion of a replica gun. It cost her 300.00 in fines to boot. It works out to 150.00 for the kid and 150.00 for the parents, and syphen is right it goes for all guns. All the local toy stores had to remove any and all toys that looked like guns, except crappy tire who can still sell bb guns and such

Why are we wasting our money on banning replica guns from kids under 18? This is not going to help solve the gun violence in our city, because if people have the money they will just buy a real gun instead of wasting their money on a replica one. And if any kid is stupid enough to bring a replica gun out with them they deserve to be shot.

Replicas already are prohibited.

the ban proposed is a municiple bylaw amendment to make it a offence punishable by a fine to be found with a replica if you are underage.

Can't see how this will affect adult responsible replica owners.

The current laws are written such that an abuse of possession of a replica, such as concealed carry, brandishing in public, use in a crime results in the same charge as if the gun was real. It is problermatic from a enforcment standpoint.
It is easy to stand here and say.. "Just shoot them" but the use of that level of force carries substantial ramifications. I don't think anyone here wants to live in a society that has police that shoot first and ask questions later.

When faced with to potential of a gun armed person, the decision to "take them down" is potentialy life changing.. we are not talking about a bb welt here.. which is likely the most serious wound most of the people here have had inflicted on them or inflicted on others.

How would you feel if you shot and killed someone who really had posed no threat? that could have been dealt with differently if they had been armed with a pointed stick instead of what looked like a lethal weapon?

I sure would not want to be a police officer faced with these situations.

I don't think the level of force being used in a situation like that is nearly as underestimated as you make it out to be. I totally understand that shooting someone, can, and likely will change the life of the shooter forever, however at the same time, while I cannot speak on the belaf of police members, as I am not one, I don't agree with the view that shooting a criminal, who had a replica, would cause nearly as much severe psycological trauma as you imply.

As for the police shooting first and asking questions later... I don't have a problem with that. As I understand it, police officers can't just open fire simply because they feel threatened. They can only do so if they see a weapon, and even then there are specific rules. (ie: I think they are allowed to fire if someone is threatening them with a knife within 40 feet).

In these cases, its already established that the suspect has a weapon, and the officer is only going to fire if they don't put it down. So really the chances of a police officer shooting someone who is only carrying a replica are rather low, given that the suspect wold have to indicate their intention to fire, by either not dropping the replica, or by aiming at the officer, for the officer to fire. In fact, I don't see where the shoot first - questions later concept would come from. This isn't the wild west, where you draw on your dueling oppenent and fire first.

Honestly, this ban, as well as a number of other proposed things are just feel good legislation. Given that you already stated its illegal for a minor to have a replica, how is this by-law going to have any real effect? What purpose does it serve, other than burning city money being enforced on dollar-stores city wide?

Ok, in repsonse to my own post.

Yes I underestimated the psycological effect killing someone over a replica can have, however I'd like to point out in my post, I never said kill, I said shot. It's two very different senario.

Also, when considering my post, note that I'm directly arguing against the ban, i'm not trying to make a statement or argument about any other subject. Be it gangs, minors, or shootings. Just the idea of this ban, by itself.

You always shoot to kill though... That's one of the main philosophies of anyone allowed to bear arms and carry them to defend themselves or others (at least those whom I've talked to). So should a police officer fire on someone presenting them with a replica arm, I'd say odds are they're going to be put down for good. In any case, that's not really the point of the discussion..

I don't think that a ban would be a good idea at all. I don't know as much as I should about the legal system, but when it comes down to it, this sounds like it's leading to an eventual all-out ban of "replicas". I could see this as a first step in that direction, especially if they continue to be used in crime and continue to fool the police.

see see see here. A kid who shall kill with a gun even just in a game, shall find it fun. It a way of the pull the trigger and your effect is X10 more powerful.Evenm if it is just a gun. If the guy you "shoot" is like worming around, like a lot of kids do, he will fell empowered. I love phys

umm, wtf?!

normally i don't whore post like this, but i just have to say I think this law is just an excuse to encourage kids to play with less violent toys. Boys are violent and need violent toys, its like hey little boy exchange your Red Ryder carbon action BB gun for an easy bake oven why don't you. I don't klnow if i'm miss reading the whole thing, but all these soccer mom by laws bring to mind Kyle's mom from south park. what WHAT WHAT!!!!!!

Not sure what the fuss is about. Kids can't play with toy guns in public places... sounds like simple common sense to me. Todays use of handguns in crime makes the police a bit more weary of young people toting guns. This will help eliminate the amount of false alarms police will deal with, and close-calls they will have, and might even save some kids life. It doesn't affect airsoft as we know and enjoy it at all, nor does it stop kids from playing with toy guns in thier homes or yards.

Note to redeemer - or maybe its just to get young boys into Betty Crocker.

i agree with the soccer moms. i also agee that imature pupils or take thier guns out way too often when they dont' need to . they do not realize that these guns can get you shot. youngins aswell as people that don't know any better think that these guns are just bb guns and yes they are but to the the general plublic, they are still guns. if i was a cop i'd shoot you first and ask questions later if you had a fully automatic rifle aimed at me. there are fields to use these guns so take them there and use them. you dont' take a real steel into your back yard and target practice there do you? i do uderstand the need to try ur new aeg or gbb out, just be wise about it. people these days worry way too much about what would happen to their kids *which is understandable* if they lose an eye or get shot by a real steal. there is so much gun violence out there now a days that the media preaches calling the cops for even just parking outside their house.


i preach take your gun out to an approved airsoft field to try them out. that way no worries are brought up and u can shoot all u like. i wouldn't want a cop coming to my house saying that people are worried because they looked in my window as they walked by ans saw me holding a few guns.

another point.......a buddy of mine sold his usp from mid bc to a person in kelowna. it was arranged to be shipped via xpress post. the rcmp scanned the package and held it. they since have returned it and said that most airmail packages are scanned now and guns aren't allow to be sent airmail. the safest and only way to send airsoft guns in bc is by ground and mark it pellet gun. this is new to me and i'm gonna try to find more info on this.

on a side note. i believe the government gun registery sux, what criminal would register thier illegal gun bought downtown for a couple hundred bucks.

sure thing buddy
oh look kid points gun at police even after being told to drop it
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1209866.shtml

heres about 43 more...although most from the states
http://www.irol.com/avc/Fact_Sheet_About_Toy_Guns.html

its is already illegal for the sale or transfer of airsoft guns and imitation firearms to someone under the age of 18...there is a certain letter from a Sol Gen. that I wont post here but it states this

Frankly I believe taking away all the kids violent and aggressive toys makes it so you are setting society up with people that have pent up aggression. Most people can deal with it in constructive manners how ever you have the others that just never learned to cope and become a burdan on our society.

Punisher,

Have you read many of the instaces on the 2nd page?

The majority of incidents listed on that fact sheet involve adults. And the ones that are pertinent to this argument don't have any information about circumstances surrounding the incident. Of the 42 incidents logged on that page, none occured in Canada, and a numer of them seemed pretty odd, which makes me wonder why exactly there aren't fuller explanations for each ones. eg:

That fact sheet is provided by a group who's purpose is to get rid of toy guns. When I say stats, I mean if someone who has paid for a subscrip to Stats Can, could dig up the stats for Police shootings involving toy or replica guns.

The incident of the boy in Florida has been discussed to death. The kid wanted to die, he intentionally suicided by cop.

Also, I am not saying we should be selling toy guns to minors, I'm specifically looking at how retarded it is to ban toy guns, which are often 1/3rd scale of real ones, so kids can hold the damn things, from being ban. Society is becoming so safe and sterile now that ANY kind of behaviour that isn't featured on Everybody Loves Raymond should be outlawed and prevented. Honestly I also see this as a step twoards bills like the birtish VCR bill, that if i'm not mistaken, makes certain kitchen knives illeagel.

On the first page someone mentioned as a joke, a bylaw that outlaws swearing, well in Ottawa there is one, its a $50 fine to swear in public, I know people (mostly international students) who are trying to be charged for it so they can brag about it.

@Redeemer
I wanted an easy bake oven when I was a kid, but none of my relatives would get it for me because "it was for girls" (my grandma was more than willing to get my a lever action air rifle though)
Now I'm 19 and have l33t skills making cakes, cupcakes, and bread but also play airsoft, so its all good :-)

Watch the movie equilibrium if you havnt, that is most likely what polititians see as the ideal society (minus the military police everywhere) in my opinion. They want zero crime, zero unrest, zero everything except compliant citizens. Parents want perfect little kids for their perfect little world, or what they think the world is, try talking about AIDs in Africa, the thousands of people killed on the street in Detroit every year, and the fact that someone is shot to death every so many minutes somewhere in the world by an AK-47, mass government authorized killings in China that are covered up, or anything else bad that happens in the world and they will just ignore it, they dont want to know how bad the world is, they just want to surround themselves with what they want, nice happy smiling people that play friendly sports and drive nice fuel efficient cars, no fighting, no war, nothing.

If they wanted to be a beacon in the world to show what life can be, that would be different, but most of them just want to not know anything bad and live a happy-go-lucky life in pure utter peace. I know some people that dont watch international news because its too depressing and reminds them of how messed up the world is, and since many of these people are the ones in majority or the higher income brackets they often have more power than the rest of us so these stupid laws get passed, hell many polititians are the same happy-go-lucky people.

Oh, and an interesting thing about police, they say they dont want the police to accidentally shoot a kid whos wielding a capgun, my aunt and uncle are both police in an undisclosed large Canadian city and my aunt is afraid of the shotgun she is "forced" to use and doesnt know what kind of pistol she has past "smith and wesson" and "9mm." My uncle is a little more knowledgable but still is no where near expert, and from what I'm told there are many police like this. So sometimes the police cant tell the difference between an obvious toy and a real gun so there is a problem there too, I'm not saying its their fault, but at least they can be knowledgeable about what they are going to run into in the streets, my uncle completly freaked when I was a kid and he saw me with a 44 magnum scale replica capgun with a MASSIVE orange cap on the end (it nearly doubled the diameter of the barrel) but it took him nearly 5 seconds to clue in that it was a toy, someone who carries a gun around all the time shouldnt have taken nearly that long to clue in.

I just hear that 2 more townships have agreed to sign onto the bylaw, 1 being Bowmanville I didnt hear who the other is. And so it begins, mayor Pierce has got her first to mayors to join the bandwagon on the issue.

although more knowledge would be good for them to have it would not work...gang members will modify their guns in order to make the police second guess...i have read storys of police hesitating when seeing the orange tip (rightfully so) but dont be surprised because gang members have been painting the tips of their real guns in effect causing this hesitation and giving them the edge...there is also a gun company out there now that is producing guns purposly made to look like toys...all different colors too...pink, neon green, yellow

People read more into it than it is. You just can't carry replicas in public places if your under 18. Nothing changes really, this is virtually a non-issue.

so +18 people can carry replicas in public? just wondering.. im not stupid enough to do it

I'm pretty sure replicas are illegal for anyone.

Didn't even read the whole thread, did you?

LUTNIT, there are people trying to lift that law, and the "Safe Streets Act." So that panhendlers can't be touched by the police.



But I agree and dissagree with Lisa here. Yes you take away every outlet of aggression a kid has, its like corking a bottle rocket and sticking it in a paint shaker. But where do you draw the line on "toy guns". I mean I went into Toys R' Us the other day and was estactic to see a WHOLE row of Tonka trucks again. I've never seen them in such quantity in any store for quite some time now. But what I still do NOT see very much of are super soapers or nerf Guns. I've seen some Laser Tag set ups.

My question is why are we not getitng our kids these kinda toys anymore? I mean what REALLY happened to capguns and nerf guns and all those. They were FUN! lots of it too. But now the kid has to feel ganster and shoot a little metal ball or pellet out of a gun that HAS to look "Mother****ing" pimp!... -.- God I hate this kinda crap... anyway

A ban on Air guns, I'm cool with that, specially in public. Although I don't think they should ban kids at say a public firing range ((I know its still kinda considered private)) when his dad or older brother (over 18 or something) goes in to shoot targets.

And in the end, if you read any of these instances noted in the threads above "Child show because Officer saw a gun," Maybe it only took a second for the Officer to react. I mean they train officers to shoot cardboard cut outs, and bandguys always have guns on them! So he see's gun, doesn't think and just reacts like his training tells him, "Gun=bad=shoot him before he shoots you!" So, if banning public display of airguns and toy guns for kids, that just seems to be more a safety thing for the kid! I mean the officer is safe, he has his kevlar and uniform and glock or 9mm what ever issue. But the kid has, no armor, no brains, and a gun in hand, spells trouble to me.



So again its bascially back to the fine line that needs to be drawn here, what IS "safe" and what isn't "Safe!" If its not safe then we need to stop it, if its safe, then there is no problem.

One thing I'd like to point out about the whole accidental shooting by police offcier shit, is:

14. On August 23, 1998, Michael Jones, a 16-year old boy, was shot 17 times and critically wounded by two police officers in Brooklyn, New York while riding a bicycle because he had a water gun that looked like a 9mm MP5 submachine gun.

Did they need to shoot him 17 times? Like, is 17 shots really necessary? And what 16 year old let alone one from Brooklyn, can AFFORD a real MP5?!?! The problem with all these things is people just being stupid. Pointing toy guns at people, brandishing them, whatever, but also cops being too quick to shoot, and even quicker to shoot to kill. What ever happened to shooting someone to wound them? No, now it's about emptying a clip into someone THEN seeing if the gun was real. PLEEEEEAAASEEEEEE... Just ridiculous.

21. On December 26, 1997, a father and his two sons, ages twelve and fourteen, were shot several times and injured by their neighbor, while the two brothers were playing in their backyard with the paint ball gun that the younger brother had received as a Christmas present the day before.

WTF!!

only one council has officialy said no in durham region now to the ban on replica guns, I think it was pickering. I'm not 100% sure tough

thanks
boomer_1