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Bill C-21 to prohibit airsoft guns in canada
Looks like airsoft has finally been added to the threat list of prohibitions along with many real steel firearms. Bill C-21 looks to add imitation firearms with mid-level velocity firearms that look exactly like a regulated firearm to the prohibited list. Prohibits all future sales, imports and etc.
Read up on it here: https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx I highly recommend writting your MP, the Safety minister, PM office, to voice your opposition to this. As well, id strongly recommend joining or donating to the CCFR or another firearms advocacy group to help the fight against these laws. |
I would love to have a Canadian airsoft federation ... I already tried to call my MP. I highly recommend that the stores, the provincial federation, and all the airsoft players come together for a one-time push with data on how much airsoft revenue is in Canada and how many job losses it can affect. If we want to win, we have to stay together and prove that we are responsible and organized.
I also invite you to check how UK dealt with Airsoft over the last decade, a similar situation to us but different approach. Portugal also got the same issue... http://ukara.org.uk |
Looks like the Libtards took a page from how the Australians banned the gel blasters...
We must act fast! |
I wrote about this happening back last spring, when they introduce OIC that banned real steel guns, somewhere on this forum. Now it happened.
@Matula, I'm afraid that airsoft sales numbers would be dwarfed by real steel sales and ammunition. Also, liberals use tactics of concealing facts that are not in their favor, such as the actual percentage of homicides during home violence used vs the illegal gun homicides. We should follow the same tactics and add airsoft sales to the real steel sales to indicate this. You are right on consolidating effort. Join CCFR and at least you'll know that your hard-earned money will not be wasted. These guys proved by their actions that they are fitting for legal gun owners. Many from our team have been donating to the cause. Creating yet another underfunded federation, that will have dick hanging at half-past 6 against anti-gun lobby, is pointless. |
Grim reading... "modernizing language in the regulation and the Criminal Code with respect to prohibited weapons, devices, and ammunition to close gaps in the law." MODERNIZING is always a scary word. Ditto "GAPS". These words are used to make measures sound progressive and reasonable, when in reality they're totally oppressive. It's just a Bill at present, but make no mistake - the writing's on the wall, and the stupid people are trying really hard to win.
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Quoted from: https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c...21-en.aspx#s03
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You may become a criminal if you install a spring that puts your "assault looking" piece of aluminum/plastic at above 500fps? Also, no more photos and videos that promote games and depict shooting other players. You may end up locked up for at least 2 years. This may even touch Instagram and Youtube channels that monetize content. amazing. P.S. Just had a thought - the movie industry is a business, isn't it? People shoot each other movies left, right, and center. Are those businesses also going to be charged for including shooting guns in promo trailers? |
It doesn?t look good... based on what is being discussed now is that any airsoft gun can be prohibited if the gun it replicates shoots above 500fps. A real HK416 shoots above 500fps and is prohibited... well your HK416 airsoft gun is also prohibited even if it ahoots below 500fps.
If it looks like a prohibited firearm, it?s prohibited. Will have to keep following to make sure but it doesn?t look good |
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Does this mean that the replica can?t be imported if it shoots over 500fps or does this mean ANY replica can?t be imported if it looks like a real gun? Also, a BB weight isn’t specified. How do they determine 500fps? .2g .3g? Lighter? |
I guess we are just going to have to do FlintLock airsoft...
https://www.redwolfairsoft.com/sprin...pring-gun.html There will be big demand for Redcoat outfits now. |
Right now we use the fact that downgraded airsoft guns are still legal because they have the potential to fire over 366fps. Well, a lot of guns have the potential to fire over 500fps too. This looks like a gigantic problem in their wording to me.
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My opinion on the wording you mention is, they say "shoots over" not "can shoot over". For example, I can make a standard Honda Civic with over 600hp, but how long after startup will it even function. So it "can", but doesn't and shouldn't. |
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we need all fields and retailers to band together and form some kind of coalition against this ruling, something like UKARA would be great... I mean if it passes their out of business.
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C-21 changed the definition of replica firearm.
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the next section 3.2 really rams the point home. Quote:
and (b) looks like a firearm that can shoot more than 500 fps/5.7 joules check now a prohibited device. |
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Best case scenario if this passes, anyone who has airsoft can keep playing with it, but any new players would be forced to use clearsoft lowers again.
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"CCFR Message to the Airsoft Community
C-21 was tabled earlier today. It's mostly a gun bill, but the liberals have slipped in a section intended to close the loophole that allows milsim type airsoft guns in Canada. The time to bring the community together on this is now. Please Share." https://youtu.be/3P5I73L-K0U |
Is be curious if clearsoft will even be allowed if if they will say that it ?too closely resembles? a real gun
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Join CCFR! Spread the word! Those dudes been fighting the fight for a while now and need all the help they can get! Bunch of us already have paperweights thanks to most recent firearm ban. I don't personally want to add airsoft to my paperweight collection!
P.S. Another thing to keep in mind if you own any real steel handguns and I know bunch of people who play airsoft do. If C-21 gets passed and your mayor goes through with the city wide ban than you have 2 options. 1. Get rid of your handguns. 2. Move to a municipality that is not affected, not affected until another mayor gets elected and passes prohibition bylaw... |
Very disappointing to see the Liberal do this again.
Most of the gun crimes involve illegal guns, but they just use the legal gun owners or airsoft as scapegoats, to show public they have done something, while hiding their complete inability to stop gun crimes. A simple way to stop gun crimes is to double or triple the penalty or imprisonments. No need to make it so complicated. I agree we should write to our MPs and reflect our opinion. |
When the election is called, just make sure you vote for the Conservatives. Liberals/NDP/Bloc/Green all think airsoft is militia training (HOW DARE YOU CALL IT MILSIM?!?) and want to see it all banned.
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If you have a BB gun or airsoft gun that resembles a real firearm, it will be prohibited! Full stop! Doesn't matter the velocity. So the only airsoft you'll be seeing in Canada is if the body is clear. No more full black airsoft guns. So stores won't be able to sell their current stock. You'll see the end of many airsoft stores because of this. So even those BB/Pellet guns at places like Canadian Tire that look like a 1911, will become prohibited under that law. |
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^ ^ That. Retailers will suffer, staff working for them will suffer, people who invested money into creating facilities for us to play in/properties to play on will suffer. Law abiding owners will suffer so on and so forth. You will not be able to buy Daisy Red Ryder for your kids to plink with. Some pball markers will also go since they are made to look like real firearms. People who own real steel are being bend over for a couple of years now, so we know exactly how this can turn out when it comes to airsoft. JT can pull another OIC move he already pulled in May and have this crap passed in like 2-3 months. He walked over people's heads and had the law passed. Law that banned artillery, mortars, Javelins and other heavy ordinance ffs :) Good thing I sold all 15 of my Javelins, my RPG 7 and both 60mm mortars you know :) Eventually they might even go for real Enfields, K98s and Mosins and other bolt guns leaving us with shotguns. I can see Libs saying, well, you guys want to hunt, sure. In Canada one can take any animal we have here with a 12ga shotgun, you guys dont need to own anything else. Hand it over. |
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The best thing a business can do is motivate its customers to vote and contact political figures. The government doesn't care about a single business crying at the doorstep, but thousands of people voting and taking part in the political system - might actually change something to our liking. |
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If this bill is going to be rejected, its going to take huge investments of time and money from everyone. Businesses have a lot at stake for sure, but the more people who contact politicians, who show the NDP and liberals that there will be consequences for putting this bill forword such as losing their position and riding, the better our chances. If we roll over and give up then i guarantee this bill will pass and our sport will be gone
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Just join the CCFR. They're already mounting the largest legal action ever against the gov on behalf of gun-folk. This action - by default - includes airsofters and paintballers who've now -like it or not - been lumped into the firearms community. It's $40 to become a member, and if you're inclined, you can contribute to their legal fund. Creating new/alternate/airsoft specific "movements" will only fragment opposition to this totally idiotic, and I daresay, dictatorial Liberal initiative.
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Green Party was not against firearm during the last election. If you check their platform, it was just a simple regulation. Nothing comparable to the Liberal Party.
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If you thought it was just to clean a gap. This is the slide shared by Bill Blair during his presentation:
https://pasteboard.co/JOOyDaX.jpg |
for those who dont speak french https://pasteboard.co/JOOMFbQ.png
*auto image translated from Matula's photo above |
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In order to achieve any results this whole thing has to be well organized by people who already know what they are dealing with. Everyone needs to get together instead of acting on their own. Firearm community already tried to bombard government with emails and petitions. It dont work. We really tried. Now, hopefully we will have more people on board, people who support this non compliance movement. That's worse case result. Country wide peaceful non compliance was the only thing we were left with when it comes to real steel. Just peacefully refuse to surrender out stuff and see what government will do. CCFR came along and decided to fight for our rights.
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Only way I see it playing out in our favor is to drag law suit until ahole gets unseated during next election and person who is in their mind comes to power. After seeing years of abuse as a firearm/airsoft ower I'm not seeing any future unless it happens.
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Misinformation helps nobody. |
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Everybody, please read the bill for yourselves here via the English link:
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c.../index-en.aspx About 2/3 of the way down it starts talking about replicas here: https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/c...21-en.aspx#s05 |
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By publicly posting some ideas are not not giving them a get out of jail free card. Your are giving government another thing to look at.
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666, sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say. I'm addressing scottyfox's post as he had noted his skepticism about the contents of the earlier post so I was pointing him to read what's been posted directly. |
I was taling about my comment on a post. There were people who were giving ideas and messages we added. I was jumping between FB and ASC. There were people who were talking about bad things on FB and I spoke with them...
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*Here i found the English slide on CGN happy now? https://ibb.co/CmBCGBB |
Oh goddammit. Figures they'd go and try to sneak something in like this. We already went through this crap not even a decade ago, just leave us alone. :(
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I don't speak often here but right now seems like a good time to get this ball going.
Where are you at in the rest of canada on legally registered associations and/or federations? We have 3 legal bodies in Quebec right now. Association des joueurs de paintball et airsoft du Quebec Federations airsoft du quebec Federation airsoft sportive du quebec I am the vice president of the association. If we ever want some sort of legal traction, we will need to get better organised than the way we are now as a country. Let me be blunt, right now the situation in QC regarding the federations is really wonky and in my opinion not what we need right now. The only viable option in my opinion is the ccfr to get this C-21 crap out of the way and get our shit together. We are currently doing this very thing through our paintball counterpart but we need to also have airsoft on this ball. So.... where are you at with this? If you are interested in this option, reach me on fb so I can hook you up with the prez https://www.facebook.com/vpajpaq.francoislemay.3 |
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Lawyer is explaining how C-21 will affect airsoft and it's not looking good. Apparently in order to keep whatever we already have we would need to have a license to possess prohibited device. License that simply does not exist.https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid...ature=youtu.be
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Think who you are voting for next time the election comes up!
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I second what @666 and @Metalsynth are saying.
Organizing airsofters into a federation of some sort is going to produce only a fart into a puddle of water. Instead of passing the responsibility to businesses, fields, god, whoever.... everyone who cares about the sport must do the following: 1. Pick up your wallet, 2. go to CCFR web site: https://membership.firearmrights.ca/...ual_membership 3. become a member. It is $40 that will be spent by an organization that had already shown its teeth to the government by launching a massive lawsuit against the OIC. They already have experience dealing with this issue, and if they fail all others will follow with the highest degree of probability. It is only $40. Each one of us buys crazy expensive upgrades to our guns that cost a number of times more. If we do not win this battle, we'll not be able to use those expensive upgrades at all, besides shooting raccoons and squirrels in the backyard. (even then you risk losing your toy and not get compensated) |
Joined the fight today. In the pic there is the pricing info for the CCFR.
TAKE NOTE! Student memberships are $20 / HALF PRICE. Family memberships are $60 which includes your spouse and up to 4 children. https://i.postimg.cc/66Mjjh7Z/20210218-155638.jpg |
I really didn't think it would take something like this bill to drag me back to feeling passionate about the sport, after so long away.
For those who are interested, there is a petition you can sign, as well as other discussed actions. http://chng.it/2McXdk6BYM |
Ian Runkle posted his legal analysis of the bill as it pertains to air Airsoft.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2oIWs_h3Vc Also here is the web page for the CCFR I strongly advise joining and donating. https://firearmrights.ca/en/home/ |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWdE...Xv3GmKo8wO%3A6 Dayton put up a video on House Gamers. |
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Sun posted an article. https://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...r-new-gun-bill
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So I'm just chiming in here so you know what a lot of the community at large is doing outside of ASC:
We are currently in the process of organizing on a national level in order to best co-ordinate our responses. We are not only in talks with the CCFR but are working towards the onboarding every province. A Petition to the House of Commons is already written, sponsored by a MP and is waiting publishing. This will be pushed out as soon as it is, There will be a lot of different initiatives: one of the most important ones that is being worked on will be real world political activism and engagement. Working with campaigns in the real world to help get people seated is one of the most powerful things we can do as an individual. A dozen Airsofters showing up to help knock on doors can be the difference in a ridings election. This organization will be ramping up soon too. Things are happening. If you want to get involved and do something more than writing a letter and hoping there will be plenty of opportunity to do that in the near future. |
Just to throw my two cents in. Has anyone started to tackle this on a BUSINESS level? Find out how much Airsoft does for the economy. Get all the stores together to start figuring out how many businesses will go under, how many employees will be terminated?
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Ive noticed the bill states that they need to "exactly replicate" an actual firearm. So wouldnt an orange tip be enough to make it so that it did not "exactly replicate"?
As usual the law is poorly written. |
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Bill C-21 is also a deterrent from Trudeaus abysmal attempts and failures at vaccinations for covid 19. The normies will eat it up while legal gun owners and now airsofters, suffer. |
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This has me super stressed out. I was just finally getting into the sport. |
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Well this is very upsetting. I was finally getting into the sport and just ordered my first gun since I was a teenager and had some chinese aegs. When I got clean off heroin 5 years ago and left the nightlife my social circle evaporated. I was excited to start making new friends and try out some of the new guns in recent years.
Now we would have to hope manufacturers would make special clear versions for Canada only or something that wont happen except in very small numbers. I guess I will start writing mps. In my near decade as an addict being around some really terrible people I never once heard of or saw an airsoft gun being used in a crime. I think our best bet is trying to find a middle ground. It wouldnt be a good precedent but requiring orange tips or something like requiring proof of membership in a club in order to purchase an realistic airsoft gun similar to how you need a gun club membership to transport a restricted firearm. I (rightly so) lost my real guns due to my drug use and now its looking like soon even air guns will be taken from us. |
All I can say is support the CCFR and NFA or any large firearms organization that is fighting this, I don't care if you don't like real guns personally, we can't be divided and conquered. The current governments intent is not to be like Japan where airsoft is totally fine because firearms are banned, so get that fantasy out of your head. We're all in it together now!
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However, not to be crass, but for you real steal guys you can have a look at the 50 page CGN threads that go back several years. None of this has resulted in any measurable reversal of policy, or change in position on any issue. It's best to become politically active. As others in this thread have suggested, collaborative canvassing and activism efforts such as Delta's (for you ON folks) is the best way forward. There was an article a couple years back about how the entire Liberal caucus was "terrified" at JT's proposed firearm legislation. And look at we have now. Why are they terrified? because we have the power to let people know about our great hobby. We have the power to cultivate change through political activism. We need to act now. |
For those who support the Liberal party or their friends, it's generally because you consider yourself to be centre-left. But Erin O'Toole's new Conservative party platform is VERY centrist and even MORE progressive than Trudeau's liberals in some ways. O'Toole wants to end fossil fuel subsidies, for instance, which Trudeau would never do. I'll leave a list below of 'who said it, Trudeau or O'Toole?' platform points for you.
But if ever there was a time to promote a very viable alternative to an administration that wants to ban airsoft guns and has ahd 7 major ethics scandals in 4 months (it's like, almost a quarter of all the Canadian political scandals list on wikipedia dating back to 1800s), it is now. • Launch a study to find ways to extend Employment Insurance coverage to the self-insured and others not covered today • Make domestic / intimate partner violence an aggravating factor in the criminal code so that it carries a tougher sentence and impose a mandatory minimum of 5 years for aggravated assault of a domestic / intimate partner • Expand the Canada Child Benefit by $500 per month per child for the first year and $250 per month, per child for the second year for women with children living in women’s shelters to help them transition to more long-term housing • Create a fund to incentivize educational institutions and private sector organizations to partner with women’s shelters to provide career training for the women they serve • Harnessing the enthusiasm of Canada’s outdoor community by helping to fund the capital costs of volunteer-led projects to restore wildlife habits, enhance wetlands and preserve biodiversity • Providing innovation incentives for the development and deployment of technologies to simplify the provision of clean water in smaller and remote communities • Avoids focus on carbon only, and instead is scoped to capture ALL greenhouse gases, many of which are more powerful than carbon dioxide; • Focuses on making industry pay [for carbon tax] rather than taxing ordinary Canadians, by forging a national industrial regulatory and pricing regime across the country • Ends fossil fuel subsidies, a form of corporate welfare Link to his platform: https://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/u...Country-EN.pdf Go out and campaign! A decent door knocking campaign can shift the vote by 10% or more! |
Hello fellow Canadians and please join the CCFR to protect your rights. Next it may be your gas using vehicles.
https://youtu.be/3P5I73L-K0U |
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As stands that will be hard to do considering all the logging and mining done on the middle of nowhere. Hard to charge electric vehicles in the middle of the bush without a giant gas chugging generator anyways. |
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Just saw the CTV report with pestobanana at Blackblitz, great job man, you come out as very professional. If only the other guys talking to the medias were as good as you. How we talk to the medias is probably the most important thing we as a community can do to raise awareness of this mess of a bill.
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I remember back in the day when Airsoft tried everything it could to distance itself from real firearms so that it wouldn't get pulled into something like this. As much as we tried it still happened. Sad really....
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Anything that shoots over 500fps becomes a firearm. For which you would need a PAL. One that I have. If C 21 gets passed I wont be able to legally use airsoft. I do not have a prohibited license nor I will be able to obtain one. If C-21 gets passed - airosft will be moved to prohibited category. No if's or but's. No legal way to go around it, no back "2000's" market. PROHIBITED with a possibility of getting criminally charged. Think about it.
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After they banned couple of guns last year I called RCMP just for a fuck of it. Asked how do I register. They had no idea what I was talking about.
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Exactly, they can come to you and take your airsoft guns if (WHEN) they want to, and nothing you can do about it.
The best we can hope for is for a government buyback (just giving us our tax money back) on them. Quote:
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Replying to Delta because I want to keep what he and many other stakeholders are working on relevant. I am not directly involved with it, but he has assured me there will be opportunities for us all to help. For now, take all the anger and frustration that we all share mutually, and please do the following: - Write your MP. A hand-written mailed letter is best. Follow-up with a phone call. Try your absolute best to get your MP on the phone, or schedule a meeting in addition to voicing your opposition. Let them know why you oppose C-21. Use this to aid you: https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en...caucusId=8781# - Support the CCFR. The CCFR is the fastest growing Firearms Rights group in Canada. They have put forward a first-of-it's-kind lawsuit campaign against the recent May 1st OIC measures. They are willing to engage, listen and take support advice from their membership. Most importantly, they openly support and want to help Airsoft. There are membership discounts for students. Let them know you represent the Airsoft community and oppose C-21. https://firearmrights.ca/en/membership-info/ - Join and share: https://www.facebook.com/Airsoft.in.Canada https://www.savingairsoft.ca/ |
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We are working on getting this launched ASAP. We as a community are in a unique position because if the ban goes through we are going to have a lot of spare time on our hands. Spending a couple weekends during an election can have a HUGE impact. |
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Also this https://www.kitchenertoday.com/local...dustry-3448525 |
I havent been active in over a decade but still collect , I just joined the CCFR , it is easy , its only 40 dollars , you can do it online , they seem like our best hope , if everyone joined it would really help fund their efforts , we all want to to rant about it & are frustrated with it , but the bottom line is that it is going to take a team of people that know what they are doing to fight this & that takes lawyers & money so I think its the best thing we can do right now
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And than there is this... Report of police seizing airsoft Glock because two door knobs used it to threaten someone. https://www.facebook.com/waterlooreg...43509305691893
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More I think about it more I'm seeing how this is aimed at airsoft. These things can actually be used by people who are giving "pro airsoft" interviews. How come when about 1500 firearms got moved to a prohibited category owners were offered a buy back option, maybe not at full price but buy back was offered, or owners were told that if they choose not to surrender property they will be grandfathered in with 12.X (prohibited firearm licenses issued to them). Those sub categories of 12 license will not allow us to trade in any other firearms but ones we already own but it will allow us to keep what we have, even if ATT will be declined and we wont be able to take guns out to a range. We will still going to be able to keep them. Government went full ape shit with airsoft. Prohibited, everything gets seized if cop asks you about it. No license available even if one wants to get it in order to keep their stuff. It looks like they are going after airsoft while giving a slack to "assault rifles" as they call them.
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Agree^^
This bill simply s*it on airsoft and offers only what has been rumored to come for the last 2 years (handgun legislations). Thing that just outright pisses people off is how this is just pushed under. There was zero mention of this at all on Tuesday and yet they leave it for the public to look into. Silently strike the community while distracting us with other legislations. This is a bigger message than any gun grab in my eyes. |
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Good thing is that my MP did actually read my letters...a good start.
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I'm not sure if I send a note to my MP if it'll make any headway. My MP is Navdeep Bains who's on his way out and a Liberal to boot. Thoughts?
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