Building the Ultimate Mechbox
 

What parts would be required to build The Ultimate Mechbox using V2 box or V2 detachable (like Prowin) in an AR type rifle?

Number goals are 300 - 400 fps with 900 - 1200 rpm and a long lifespan.

Thanks for your responses................. dragwindsor

A Systema or Guarder complete mechbox would be my choice. No screwing around with shimming or assembling. Just get it, drop it in, and you're good to go. If price is a concern, the JG black mechboxes are quite durable, although will probably require some preventative maintenance such as shimming, and I'd probably install a bearing piston head and spring guide for good measure.

I was looking at this to build
http://www.boomarms.com/sc/viewprodu...ProductID=1596

I forgot to mention it would be rear wired. Are the Guarders rear wired. It's going in a New Gen Guarder C8 body

I wouldn't touch Pro Win unless a pro gun doc were to do it for me. They need a lot of assembly and I hear they need a lot of modifications to the body to get a correct fit.

As for wiring, I haven't looked into the specifics of the mechbox, but I'm sure both versions would be available - front and rear wired. If not, it's quite easy to reroute the wiring.

The Guarder seems like a good idea. What kind of ROF are the Guarder standard gear mechbox's rated for. I'd like 1300 rpm like my stock 9.6v CA SCAR.

ROF is really dependent on spring strength and battery power. You can always adjust that with things like a high speed motor, high speed gears, etc.

My CA M15 has a standard ratio gear set (stock CA) and a Prometheus MS110SP, running the stock CA motor through a 6.03mm tightbore and powered by a 9.6V 3800 mAh battery, I get 1320 rpm @ 385 fps.

My stock CA SCAR runs 275 fps with .25's at 1304 rps off a 9.6v 1500 mAh. That's about what I'm looking for, just HIGH quality.

Well, the CA mechbox shell is reinforced and is as good as any Systema or Guarder IMO. Stock, CA internals should last a long time without issues. With an upgraded spring, you're likely to see issues with your piston and spring guide, and the CA piston head leaves something to be desired.

I'd say keep the shell, throw in a Systema silent piston & cylinder head set, a Modify piston, Modify tappet plate and a metal bearing spring guide. Add a stiffer spring to get the velocity you want, and throw in an über-motor like a Systema Magnum motor, and you should hit that goal pretty easily and have a reliable mechbox.

If you have the neccesary know how or the time and money and access to some simple metal grinding machinery/tools I totally suggest the PGC prowin.Im not gona lie, it can be very difficult to install depending on what brand of metal body you go with. It has been stated that hurricane bodies are easier to work with though when it comes to prowin mechboxes. Prowin mechbox with prometheus parts and a good motor of your choice and you should be good to go. However the link you supplied is for a prowin 7mm, which are hard to find these days. I believe the 8mm (black) is availble from most over seas asian retailers.

However if that option is not with in your means, I suggest going with a full systema complete highspeed mechbox drop in with motor. Easy simple and very little fuss, just drop it in and your good to go. You will get the results you wish with the least amount of effort.

If you are dead set on building your own do your best to keep all the part brands to one company if at all possible. A smattering of parts from various companies has been noted to cause complications. So try and keep it all systema or all modify or whatever you choose. Personally I recommend systema and for a few parts like spring and piston I suggest prometheus.

DO NOT BUY THE BLUE PROWIN THEY SUCK get this one http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper...4_srch_Pro-win
I have built 2 now and we have 4 of them being used on our team, they aren't that hard to get working you just need to follow the instructions.
Your #s would be easy to achieve, I have been shooting 420FPS with .20s I use a Madbull M110 spring and get a ROF of 27bps or 1620RPM, with a 9.6v 1700 mah battery

Agreed. That's the route I would take. It's the most hassle-free way of attaining your goal.

They need alot of patience.... *First hand experience :)* I took up airsoft in august last year... and after 4-5 months i started work on my own kit and also embarked on a custom gun a few months ago. I didnt find it too hard to work on the PGC as i'm prety good at figuring things out, however you need to be patient, expect to void warenties, pull your hair out and always consider it a gamble that its all going to be fine untill its all up and running. But when it does - frigging awsome. I still havnt got the Spring release working smoothly on mine yet, but the rest appears to be working so far.

Thats nearly identical to mine.

CA M15A4 SPC
Standard Gears
Prometheus POM pistonhead
Guarder Piston - Swapped out the CA but didnt need to as it was imaculate even after 80,000 bb's
Stock Motor
4200mAh Intellect Battery 9.6v
Prometheus MS110SP
Prometheus 6.03mm Tightbore

Also @ 22 rounds per seccond..


I agree and the CA Yellow Piston is the most impressive part i have seen. As i mentioned 80k bb's and having near enough Zero wear on the piston ( I have photos somewhere as i was that amazed).. .The CA piston head is not very good tbh, but it does the job.

[QUOTE=TokyoSeven;819513]I totally suggest the PGC prowin. Im not gona lie, it can be very difficult to install depending on what brand of metal body you go with.[QUOTE]

Do you use a Pro-win also? The way you worded things makes it sound like you know how hard they are to install and setup.

From the questions being asked i would persoanlly say for ease... just get a Systema Turbo gearbox set.... It will cost like 1/3 or 1/4 of the price of building a Pro-Win with high end parts such as Prometheus internals.. I know this as i have one with the following specification below.

PGC 8mm Pro-win
Prometheus - Ball Bearing Spring Guide
Prometheus - POM Ball Bearing Piston Head
Prometheus - Prometheus MS110SP
Prometheus - High Speed Gears
Prometheus - Shims
Prometheus - Anti Reversal Latch
Prometheus - Hard Piston
Prometheus - Ported Cylinder

What level of work have you done on guns before? For this kind of questioning it would be worth letting us know a little background. A more informative suggestion could then be suggested, however i still think for what your after the Systema Turbo set would be the best option. It shoots 30rpm at 9.6v with the ready made set. Thats around 1800rpm... Use 8.4v to lower this down to the approx ROF your after. I think Red Wold Airsoft tried this setup with a 12v battery and the result is insane...

Hope this helps.

Crunch, I'm selling the SCAR. I got a VFC.

I'd like to go Prowin because I'm a collector before a player. I'd like a sw33t box. I'm a fabricator, so I can handle the modifications.

It's going in a Guarder New Gen C8 body rear wired.

What else would I need besides a motor and gears?

Thanks guys

I worked on a prowin build with Cushak earlier this year. Between the two of us it wasnt very complicated at all. The majority of the effort I think was put into getting the proper clearance ground into interior of the reciever. With in a day though we had it purring like a kitten.

I'll be starting my own personal 8mm set up straight away as well. Although Im having a hell of a time finding some of the parts that I want for the build of the gun itself, its proving to be more of a challance hence why Ive held off on the project till all parts could be assembled in one sitting.

The electrical components, trigger set up and wiring and such. Also I would go with a new spring instead of the ones supplied.
I think there was something else I cant remeber off the top of my head.

Is there anything in the Systema mechboxes that need to be replaced?
I remember hearing that there's a part that isn't quite up to snuff.
Piston?

I put about 20 000 rounds through mine stock before opening it to upgrade the spring. Having everyone tell me the potentially problematic parts when upgrading the spring, I bought all the replacements to install with the new spring. I got a Systema bearing spring guide, Systema silent piston & cylinder head set, Systema tappet plate, Systema polycarb piston and Systema nozzle. Basically, every part of the compression system except the cylinder itself.

When I got it opened, the only stock part that showed any sign of (very minor) wear was the spot on the tappet plate where the sector gear nub connects with it. But I swapped the parts nonetheless. The new Systema polycarb piston lasted all of about 200 rounds before blowing up. I reinstalled the stock piston and it's been fine since (about 5000 rounds since). The Systema tappet plate lasted maybe 500 rounds before it broke, and I reinstalled the stock tappet plate which has been in for about 4500 rounds now and no issues. Seems like the stock CA parts are more durable than "top of the line" Systema after-market parts (and yes, I got real Systema, and not Area 1000 parts).

You need everything - the trigger assembly, selector plate, cutoff lever, wiring, etc.

So I'm looking at a $400 box?

Systema drop in... cheaper and a pretty damn good gearbox.

It's gonna be pretty expensive if you're looking at top-shelf aftermarket parts in a Pro Win box. I'm still of the opinion that you'd be best off with a Systema drop-in. It will be just as monstrous, perform just as well, and be as durable as the Pro Win. The only "down side" with the Systema is that you don't have the split design to make spring changes easier.

But hey, it's your gun and your money. If you don't mind spending the cash and feel comforable making any necessary mods to fit the Pro Win, then it would be a great learning experience.

I highly doubt a Systema mechbox would be a durable as a one piece(or technically two piece, or whatever) CNC'd Pro-Win mechbox. But I agree with everything else you said.

Great thread, fantastic info guys.

Well, at under 400 fps, I think a Systema shell wouldn't be likely to break and would probably last the for many years, possibly even the lifetime of the gun, just as the Pro Win would. I don't disagree that the Pro Win could take more a lot more sustained abuse with a stiffer spring than the Systema though. I'm talking more in terms of practicality with his targeted velocitiy. They'd effectively be as durable.

The Black pro-win set comes with a non ported cylinder, bearing piston head, Brass spring guide( not bearing), 2 springs, cylinder head, metal nozzle, 2x hop rubbers and a few others..

The main ones you will need to add yourself are.

Gears,
Shims
Piston
Anti reversal latch
Switch assembly
switch cut-off leaver that the gear uses to make the gun run in semi auto.
Use a new hop rubber - i liked the systema one i used.

I think these are the main internal gearbox parts you require separatly. Get the right Cylinder you need for your guns barrel too, ( i took out the one that was previously used so it was correct).

Remem,ber the systema drop is box is alot cheaper compaired to the Pro-win setup. Also theM120 setups that Systema do ready made will bring you in at around 390-410 region if i recall.

Right. I was just talking more of a hardcore spring, or extended use with a high to hardcore spring.

Any gearbox will be "ultimate" if the gearbox is worked or build by a good gunsmith.

I see some of you guys recommend Systema Drop in gearbox so much but dont get your hopes to high. I have fixed a few clients aegs with Systema gearbox and guess what its not the "best" or "perfect" you expect it to be. Some are poorly shimmed, not enough lube in the bearing bushings, piston head O-ring and the gearset and seen a few with broken trigger post.

I have Systema drop in gbox on my own and instead dropping it straight into my project M4 I replaced the whole internals and re-worked everything with zero tolerance and I can compare and prove my gearbox is one of the "best" or "perfect" gearbox out there. :)

Even though the Systema Complete Mechbox is "Drop In" I would also shimm it myself, as should you. Why would you rely on someone else doing the job and taking their word for it when you can ensure it and do it yourself. Don't forget to change it to dean connections, you will get a higher ROF.

I guess I just taked it for granted and assume everyone whose even working on internals would keep it in mind that even a prebuild needs to be checked. Its true though, sometimes they need some work before they are good to go.

I didn't mean to direct the question directly at you T7, just generally to everyone who assumes Systema "Drop Ins" Or any complete mech box are "perfect" out of the box. Its true though, if you want the job done right, do it yourself, if you can't do it, find someone who can.

JG Complete Mecha Boxes require mandatory maintenance/preventative maintenance I find, Ive seen two so far, both required shimming and wiring ain't that great.

You probably learned alot about mechboxs having a VFC HK, eh T_A_N_K? I heard they have some issues.

OK. I'm ordering a Systema drop-in.

Which model do I get for 1200 rpm @ 375 - 400 fps with .20's.

What motor would work the best?

It has a Prometheus M4A1 (363mm) 6.03 TightBore inner.

I was thinking of a standard box with standard motor running off a 9.6v battery.

I'd like to achieve those figures with an 8.4v battery, as I have to build a custom battery because I have a DD 9.0 front R.I.S. and I'm getting a Magpul UBR RS stock which has no room.

I plan on placing cells wherever I can, linking them, and just having the connector somewhere I can access. I'll just plug the gun in.

Thanks for your help. I'm gonna get this thing done.

You will be hard pressed to get 1300rpm at 400fps with an 8.4v large battery, but it's not impossible.

I would recommend a Systema Magnum motor. They simply are the best motor's on the market, pricey, but tried and proven.

If you can put a mini sized battery in your setup, go for lipo, 1300rpm at 400fps can easily be achieved with a 11.1v lipo and a magnum motor. 7.4v will probably put you at around 1100 or 1200rpm at 400fps but is 2/3rds the thickness of the 11.1v.

This is all speculation though, as I've never used a Systema drop in mechbox.

This is the stock tube

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/c..._acc_adprs.jpg

Systema drop in mechbox are ok for mid time period.

Cons: piston, piston head.

I would go for heavy custom mechbox, starting with Hurricane reinforced V2 (best v2 mechbox)

Prometheus parts (helical gear, piston, spring..)
Everything else can be systema

Systema magnum motor as stated above.

Marriott did you get this worked out?? if not you just need to loosen the screws that hold the buttom arm in and then thread lock them, it will probably work after that. If the 2 little phillips are to tight they won't allow the arm to move back and forth smoothly. all they do is hold the piece in place.

Jay