Converting ICS CXP into a SAW

[ThunderCactus]

mwahahaha

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

I honestly don't get what the hype is with 30+ RPS beasts (other than proof of concept of course).

The real reason I build these beasts is for the superb trigger response, but along the way, many people (myself included) who build 30+ rps monsters get addicted to the spread of hail that cannot be denied by chronic hit-ignorers, and that quickly becomes the Official Reason. I know this is a popular reason down south in the US, a lot of the guys on airsoftmechanics and youtube preach the "I build 50rps guns because you don't call your damned hits".

The point of all that fades if you play with a society of people you trust (like I do these days) and I personally have begun to revert to semi or burst, though the folks that play with me generally still recognize the sound of my Diablo immediately if I ever do switch to full auto. Going through a mag every minute however becomes extremely tiring, and carrying around 15 mags is also tiring and bulky. If I must go outside of semi, I find that a 30 to 40 rps 3-round burst is excellent form of "statistical insurance". One pull of the trigger, and at a distance you've got a decent spread around your reticle to make a hit more likely.

Another angle is "reliability research" and just plain quest for knowledge type stuff. I think that accounts for at least half of the hype behind building very extreme AEGs. I have a strong personal interest in discovering what airsoft's version of "a bridge built 6 times stronger than anticipated load, so that it never fails" is, and I'm fairly certain that I've more or less got the hang of it with my Diablo. Operating at extremes is the way to get there. Put a M110 spring in a gun like that and it could run for a very very long time.

But back to the topic at hand...

At the end of the day, building a SAW for airsoft is all about suppression, solid defense at a distance, and cover fire. If my Diablo were to be converted to a SAW, it would empty a 3000 round box mag in 75 seconds, which is really NOT useful for your team at all unless you're playing a very short round and really love spending money on BBs. Sub 15rps, perhaps 12rps is the way to go. This is what I would do if I were to convert it to a SAW.

I'd optimize heavily for making the job as effortless as possible for the gearbox/electrical system so as to minimize heat, current draw, and torque-spikes: A high torque neo motor, very high torque gears for a nice slow rotation and easy job for the motor (go nuts with something like 32:1), 16AWG or higher wiring, the biggest LiPo that can fit in the gun's biggest cavity (something above 6000mAh and high C), Deans or XT60 connectors.

Ideally, I'd want to restrict myself to bursts and full auto, since we are looking for maximum efficiency here, and an AEG will consume dramatically more juice at the beginning of a burst vs just keeping the gears rotating once it's got going initially.

Add a nice long barrel with an unported cylinder and an M110 or M120 spring *max*, since we don't want to be challenging your electrical system at all. Use R-Hop so that the hopup unit is stealing as little velocity from the BB as possible and making the best of the 380-400fps we're working with. A SAW is looking to consistently run all day long and pretty much serve as a "NO" hammer to any opposing forces that approach within 300ft of the wielder.

At 12rps, a 3000 round mag will last about 250 seconds of continuous fire, which isn't too bad if you manage your bursts, however, that's still gonna bring up some questions as to how to carry more ammo. I'd focus on that before getting all excited about bipods and other heavy shit. Always focus on the basics. Range. Power delivery. Ammo availability. Being useful to your squad. Design around that and you'll build a wonderful SAW.

[ThunderCactus]

I've found 1200rpm to be more useful than 800rpm
But the most difficult thing about building a reliable M249, was finding a good motor lol

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

But the most difficult thing about building a reliable M249, was finding a good motor lol

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinions on motors that are up to this task... and the ones that aren't.

[ThunderCactus]

Keep in mind this is all after professional retuning, balancing the armature and shimming it properly
G&P M120 and M140 won't do it, they overheat way too much
dont even talk about systema magnum lol
EG700 can pull it, but they're not high performance motors, good for stock AEGs though

I stopped looking into better motors when I found the eagle force EG1300, tank of a motor, hand wound armature, well balanced and shimmed. I ran it so hard for so long on a 3c LiPo, it finally stopped when the commutator turned pitch black from carbon buildup. Cleaned it up, runs fine lol

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

I stopped looking into better motors when I found the eagle force EG1300, tank of a motor, hand wound armature, well balanced and shimmed. I ran it so hard for so long on a 3c LiPo, it finally stopped when the commutator turned pitch black from carbon buildup. Cleaned it up, runs fine lol

Hell yeah. If your high performance motor isn't generating so much god damned fire that it ends up coated in a fine black layer of soot, you're not really living life.