Illegal over 500fps?

[Sim123456]

Hi guys, I was wondering why retailers sell upgrades like 300% springs and high quality upgrades parts (cylinder set, Systema parts) if, when e-mailed for information, will tell you that they don't want to help or suggest parts that will goes over 500fps because it is illegal (007 Airsoft, WGC shop etc)?

[ujiro]

It is illegal in most countries, or at least not allowed on fields, to play with 500+ fps guns.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Sim123456

Hi guys, I was wondering why retailers sell upgrades like 300% springs and high quality upgrades parts (cylinder set, Systema parts) if, when e-mailed for information, will tell you that they don't want to help or suggest parts that will goes over 500fps because it is illegal (007 Airsoft, WGC shop etc)?

Over 500 FPS is not illegal as long as the Muzzle energy is below 5.7 Joules
A device that can fire a projectile must meet both 500 fps and over 5.7 joules to be considered a firearm.

People do use AS guns that shoot over 500 fps ... typicaly in Bolt action guns used for sniping

Although most fields in Ontario have a 400- 450 FPS rule with .2 g BBs

[Amos]

In Canada an airsoft gun has to fire 758 FPS (If I remember right.. I know it's 750+) on .2 gram BB's to be considered a fire-arm by out laws.

[richards]

Air Guns

If you own or want to acquire an air gun, here is some information you should know about how the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code apply to them.

Air guns (also known as BB guns, pellet guns, spring guns or air soft guns) fall into three categories:

* air (pneumatic system),
* spring (spring-air), and
* gas (CO2/nitrogen).

For purposes of the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code, air guns can be broken down further into the following four categories:

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code.

These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). The “muzzle velocity” is the speed of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, normally expressed in metres per second or feet per second. The “muzzle energy” is the energy of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, expressed in joules or foot-pounds. Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.

These high-powered air guns are subject to the same licence and registration requirements as a conventional firearm.

You are also required to store, transport, display and handle them safely in accordance with the regulations supporting the Firearms Act.

Usually, the manufacturer’s specifications are used to determine what muzzle velocity and muzzle energy an air gun was designed to have. This information may be available in the user’s manual or on the manufacturer’s web site. If the information is not available, individuals can call 1 800 731-4000 and ask to speak to a firearms technician to find out if the air gun is classified as a firearm for purposes of the Firearms Act.

High-powered air rifles are classified as non-restricted firearms. High-powered air pistols are classified as restricted if their barrel is longer than 105 mm or prohibited if their barrel length is 105 mm or less.

2. Air guns that meet the Criminal Code definition of a firearm, but that are deemed not to be firearms for certain purposes of the Firearms Act and Criminal Code.

These are air guns with a maximum muzzle velocity of 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second and/or a maximum muzzle energy of 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot pounds.

Such air guns are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate. However, they are considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such an air gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.

The simple possession, acquisition and use of these air guns for lawful purposes is regulated more by provincial and municipal laws and by-laws than by federal law. For example, some provinces may have set a minimum age for acquiring such an air gun. For more information, please contact your local or provincial authorities.

These air guns are exempt from the specific safe storage, transportation and handling requirements set out in the regulations supporting the Firearms Act. However, the Criminal Code requires that reasonable precautions be taken to use, carry, handle, store, transport, and shipped them in a safe and secure manner.

3. Air guns that are replica firearms

These are air guns that are not powerful enough to cause serious injury or death, but that were designed to resemble a real firearm with near precision. Replica firearms, except for replicas of antique firearms, are classified as prohibited devices.

In particular, some air guns that are commonly called air soft guns may fall into this category. These are devices that have a low muzzle velocity and muzzle energy, and that usually discharge projectiles made out of a substance such as plastic or wax rather than metal or lead.

Although replica firearms are prohibited, you may keep any that you owned on December 1, 1998. You do not need a licence to possess them, and they do not need to be registered. However, as an individual, you cannot import or acquire a replica firearm. If you take a replica firearm out of Canada, you will not be able to bring it back in.

The Criminal Code sets out some penalties for using a replica firearm or any other imitation firearm to commit a crime.

The Canada Firearms Centre (CAFC) receives many enquiries from people wondering whether a low-powered air gun would be considered a replica if it resembles a real firearm in terms of its shape and size, but it is made of clear or brightly coloured plastic, or is much smaller in size.

Many of these devices have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. As a general rule, however, those made out of clear plastic and those that are significantly smaller than the real version are not classified as replicas. Brightly coloured paint does not necessarily exclude a device from the definition of a replica.

4. Air guns that are neither firearms nor replicas

These are air guns that are not powerful enough to be classified as firearms and that do not resemble a real firearm closely enough to be considered a replica. An example would be a harmless air gun made out of clear plastic or a device that is obviously a child’s toy.

Like replicas, they generally fall within the definition of an “imitation firearm” and are subject to some penalties under the Criminal Code if used to commit a crime.
Information

FFor more information about the Firearms Act, contact the CFP.

This fact sheet is intended to provide general information only. For legal references, please refer to the Firearms Act and its regulations.

Provincial, territorial and municipal laws, regulations and policies may also apply.

Le présent feuillet d'information est également disponible en français.

Revised April 2008

hopefully this will clear up all questions.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by richards

These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds).

Here's the important parts.

[Capt. T/O]

Thats only for the purposes of BOTH the CCC and Firearms Act.
If you read further down... under section 2 ... it reads just as importantly...

"2. Air guns that meet the Criminal Code definition of a firearm, but that are deemed not to be firearms for certain purposes of the Firearms Act and Criminal Code.

These are air guns with a maximum muzzle velocity of 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second and/or a maximum muzzle energy of 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot pounds.

Such air guns are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate. However, they are considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such an air gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.

The simple possession, acquisition and use of these air guns for lawful purposes is regulated more by provincial and municipal laws and by-laws than by federal law. For example, some provinces may have set a minimum age for acquiring such an air gun. For more information, please contact your local or provincial authorities.

These air guns are exempt from the specific safe storage, transportation and handling requirements set out in the regulations supporting the Firearms Act. However, the Criminal Code requires that reasonable precautions be taken to use, carry, handle, store, transport, and shipped them in a safe and secure manner."


So, to answer your question, is it illegal for airguns to shoot over 500 fps... the answer is: it depends.

[Sim123456]

But why compagnies such 007 Airsoft and WGC that sell high end upgrades parts when asked for them, say that they do not want to take part in the building of a 500fps+ gun?

[The Saint]

It's not easy to build guns over 500fps. Even putting aside the legal concerns in certain countries, a lot of companies don't want to get into annoyance of making something that might break itself after a few shots.

For 007, it's probably beyond their resources and manpower. For WGC... HK is full of people who do upgrade work. WGC doesn't need to get into that to make money. Also, 500fps+ is over their 2J limit.

Almost forgot, a "500fps spring" is something of a misnomer. A spring that produces 500fps in one gun will not produce 500fps in a smaller gun. For example, if someone in HK wanted to do ~450fps in a M4, he'd need to get a "500fps spring".

[Danke]

Most companies & individuals tend not to hand out information like this just for asking, the old "if you have to ask rule".

The retailers know that it's not a case of whipping out a credit card and placing order after order, the parts need to be assembled in the right order.

For the guys who know how to assemble the parts they won't be emailing out a how to guide for something they had to spend a lot of skull sweat figuring out.

The catch is the folks who know how are pretty well all very approachable in person.

One or two might ask why someone who's a collector that only shoots indoors would want that velocity but others will go as far to put on clinics and lead a group through how to set a rifle like that up. All you need to do is get out to the games and start meeting folks in person.

[Sim123456]

I am a person who just love to upgrades thing. I had a Chevy Impala 1971, replace the stock 350 to a 427. Just for the fun. I'm doing the same with my pc, watercooled and OC the the limit. I had way more than 2000$ spent on my last HPI Savage just for the thrill of trying bigger and bigger engine. Now I have a Type 96 that fire at 465fps out of the box. It would be different if I had bought a 280fps Maruzen and would like to upgrades it to 450fps. But I'm starting at 465fps and since I love upgrading things, I am trying to learn how. I will do it myself but I was asking advices to retailers that I was thinking had a lot of informations about their products. If they sell 300% spring to hit +-650fps, I was thinking that they would put feedbacks on the parts if customers help was needed

Uncompagny was the only one to help me but I did not made the same mistakes as the other retailers saying that I wanted this or that, but I simply put a lot of upgrades and asked them if everything was good.

[ILLusion]

It takes a lot of skill and experience to upgrade any gun to that high of a velocity. If you don't know what you're doing or have to ask people about it, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Nobody wants to be your pro bono tech support guru - this is why they don't offer that service.

[Sim123456]

Doing things for the first time is a way to learn. If it work, you learned something. If it doesn't work and break, well you learned twice. And if you never try something, how can you know that you can or cannot? When informations and helpers are a rare thing, then you are left to learn by yourself

And from the guide on the net and the disassembly and assembly of this type of airsoft on youtube, there s'till people willing to help others that want to learn, and thank's to them. In fact this is the first hobby that I see so much negatives feedback about helping others.

[FOX_111]

You are free to do whatever you want to do with your money and time as long as it remain legal.

And in the end, we just don't want you to bring your hot gun to a game...

If you search carefully, you will find a lot of infos on upgrading Bolt action rifle and AEGs. The infos is out there.

Going back to topic, an airsoft gun should not be able to reach the 5.7 joules mark easely. If it did, it would be a time bomb anyway and not practical. Even for a sniper rifle.

Just for comarison, a 450fps field legal sniper rifle shoot at 1.88j with 0.20g BBs.
Even at 650fps, we are still well bellow the 5.7j mark.

[Sim123456]

As I said, I am a target shooter and in no way intend to play on field. All I will do is remove my cylinder and put a new one, with a new piston, piston head, steel guide + spring (170%). Plus a zero trigger box. I can't guess about the difficutly of those upgrades but on youtube, doing excatly the same upgrades seem possible for a noob. So I will try. I will in no way continue to ask retailers any help or infos for the parts they sell, I will just buy them and after I'll do research on the web, forum and youtube and if I still can't, I will ask questions here. If people answer, good, if not, well too bad