FAQ for Tokyo Marui Hi-Capa, 2011, 1911, MEU & Detonics type variants

[e-luder]

so. I've recently received a 4.3 from the classifieds.

I've got to working on it today. And found a problem I can't solve.
THe gun came with a Guarder Springfield metal slide and causing all kinds of issues with the cycle of the gun. I since have switched to the stock plastic one for the time being so I can use it.

The barrel is somehow getting jammed on the slide's return and keeps the slide "open". I've sanded the corners of the lugs on both the barrel and slide and still get the same result. I have to push the outerbarrel towards the BBU to get it to "unstuck"...
I've tried both a metal and stock barrel but still no improvement.

Both barrels work fine on the stock slide so I surmize that the slide is the issue that needs to be modded somehow. I just don't which part to mod...

Any thoughts on a fix?

I thought about replacing the slide as whole but i thought I might give this Guarder one last go before I make up my mind...

[jordan7831]

Are you getting the problem of the gun and slide jamming up together? Like when the side jams up the easiest way to unjam it is to push the outer barrel inwards to unlock it?

Well normally thats a sign the slide is no good. You can try adding lots of lube in there to make sure it runs nice and smooth. But ultimately you would probably have to replace something E.

Is there lots of wear on the chamber of the barrel? If thats the case then it could be the locking lugs in the slide are causing problems and hang ups. Or it could be the barrel is not tilting back fast enough and getting jammed under the slide. I had this problem with a lot of WE guns. The slide would go back so fast, that the barrel would not have a chance to tilt back, as a result, the slide would get jammed open. The way I fixed it was to just make sure there was lots of lube on the barrel, and the part where the inner barrel assembly and the outer barrel rub together.

I would try giving the slide lots of lube for now, and if worse comes to worse, you can always but an expensive non tilting barrel. Or you can take out the dremal and grind down the faux locking lugs on the inside of the slide. Or send the gun to me to play with Since I owe you a favor


On a related note: Does anyone know if a KJW meu hammer will work in a TM Hi capa?

[e-luder]

Actually the slide seems pretty brand new....

It doesn't jam when I manually rack the slide but when the gun fires sometimes it jams. And yes. The only way it will unjam is if I push the barrel in towards the rear.

The locking lugs weren't even broken in yet. I took the dremmel out and rounded off their corners and the corners on the lugs on the barrel as well. And low and behold, it cycles normally now. But once in a while it still jams.

I suppose it just needed to get a bit of ware in there...

Another question though. Is there a way to fit a BBU into this stupid Guarder slide with minimal modification? I'm looking at this thing now and I don't really want to cut one of the prongs off (which is apparently what needs to be done according to various airsoft forums) just get it to fit into an already problematic slide. Plus the BBU is brand new and I don't really have the heart to butcher it just yet...

[e-luder]

Well...

After many hours of working on the stupid gun, I've finally diagnosed the issue. It's actually the little nub on the hop unit that pushes the barrel up or releases it from the tilt.

Turns out this particular barrel is not really compatible with the Marui hop up unit. The little nub pushes the outer barrel too high up and is causing the jam. Even though the barrel is not suppose to be tilting, the ramp on the barrel that the little nub rests on was too proud and is always bringing up the height in which the barrel rests and thus causing a continuous lock with the lugs on the slide.

5 minutes of dremmel work fixed hours of testing....<sigh>.

[jordan7831]

Should have sent the gun to me for the testing

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by e-luder

so. I've recently received a 4.3 from the classifieds.

I've got to working on it today. And found a problem I can't solve.
THe gun came with a Guarder Springfield metal slide and causing all kinds of issues with the cycle of the gun. I since have switched to the stock plastic one for the time being so I can use it.

The barrel is somehow getting jammed on the slide's return and keeps the slide "open". I've sanded the corners of the lugs on both the barrel and slide and still get the same result. I have to push the outerbarrel towards the BBU to get it to "unstuck"...
I've tried both a metal and stock barrel but still no improvement.

Both barrels work fine on the stock slide so I surmize that the slide is the issue that needs to be modded somehow. I just don't which part to mod...

Any thoughts on a fix?

I thought about replacing the slide as whole but i thought I might give this Guarder one last go before I make up my mind...

What metal barrel are you using? I can only recommend matching same manufacturer barrels to slide. Even still, the few times I've matched a Guarder barrel to a Guarder slide, there were still cycling issues that needed fixing. Guarder Hi-Capa slides are pure crap.

I've had problems mixing Shooters Design barrels to Guarder slides as well.

I've mixed ILLusion Kinetics fixed outer barrels with Guarder slides as well. Right away, it won't fit well due to the Guarder slide pressing the barrel against the recoil spring bushing. Filing a portion of it off will fix it and make this a compatible option.

As for the slide catching on the barrel... that's just an issue that you'll have to deal with when using metal slides and tilting barrels. The problem is, once a slide starts doing this, it will eventually self destruct itself to the point where it will ALWAYS lock up. Some slides are bad for having this happen right out of the box (Guarder comes to mind...). The only 100% reliable way to fix this, is to use a fixed barrel option, like the ILLusion Kinetics outer barrel.

However, depending on what brand outer barrel you have there, if it's a two piece model, I've figured out a hack/fix that's worked well all of the times I've done it. It involves creating a spring loaded assembly between the inner barrel and the chamber. The purpose, is to force the barrel to tilt back in it's natural state. This ensures the chamber is always lowered and clear of the slide. When the slide returns to battery, it will push the barrel back in to battery. As the slide moves backwards, the barrel will follow the slide back. With this method, even if your lugs are completely smoked, it's still functional. When doing this, make sure the spring strength does not overcome the recoil spring strength, or the slide won't return to battery completely.

Originally Posted by jordan7831

On a related note: Does anyone know if a KJW meu hammer will work in a TM Hi capa?

Yes, it will work.

Originally Posted by e-luder

Another question though. Is there a way to fit a BBU into this stupid Guarder slide with minimal modification? I'm looking at this thing now and I don't really want to cut one of the prongs off (which is apparently what needs to be done according to various airsoft forums) just get it to fit into an already problematic slide. Plus the BBU is brand new and I don't really have the heart to butcher it just yet...

Any BBU will fit - you just have to clip the prong off, which is a required installation step, as per the manufacturer:



Those are instructions directly from Intrudershop. All retailers should be including this information with the product information. Unfortunately, many do not.

Most people buy the slide and blindly shove their blowback units in, which is why you see so many mangled BBU's with these slides with complaints of cycling issues. They're just not being installed properly. Or... the slides just weren't engineered properly to begin with. :P

Once you clip that prong off, the BBU is useless with any other brand of slide.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

What metal barrel are you using? I can only recommend matching same manufacturer barrels to slide. Even still, the few times I've matched a Guarder barrel to a Guarder slide, there were still cycling issues that needed fixing. Guarder Hi-Capa slides are pure crap.

I actually don't know what make the barrel is. But judging from the look of it, it looks like a stock WE 4.3 cone outer barrel. It has that weird silver finish to it and the thread adapter that most WE guns come with these days.

The fact the outer barel is a WE one is, in itself, THE problem. Coupled with the Guarder slide.

At this point i think it may be wise to replace the barrel and slide altogether.

The only 100% reliable way to fix this, is to use a fixed barrel option, like the ILLusion Kinetics outer barrel.

Does it come in a 4.3 length?

However, depending on what brand outer barrel you have there, if it's a two piece model, I've figured out a hack/fix that's worked well all of the times I've done it. It involves creating a spring loaded assembly between the inner barrel and the chamber. The purpose, is to force the barrel to tilt back in it's natural state. This ensures the chamber is always lowered and clear of the slide. When the slide returns to battery, it will push the barrel back in to battery. As the slide moves backwards, the barrel will follow the slide back. With this method, even if your lugs are completely smoked, it's still functional. When doing this, make sure the spring strength does not overcome the recoil spring strength, or the slide won't return to battery completely.

Hmm. Does it only work on a two piece system? I'm trying to picture what you mean here but it seems like a complicated fabrication of machinery...

Any BBU will fit - you just have to clip the prong off, which is a required installation step, as per the manufacturer:



Those are instructions directly from Intrudershop. All retailers should be including this information with the product information. Unfortunately, many do not.

Most people buy the slide and blindly shove their blowback units in, which is why you see so many mangled BBU's with these slides with complaints of cycling issues. They're just not being installed properly. Or... the slides just weren't engineered properly to begin with. :P

Yeah that's exactly what happened here, it seems like. the person actually did the modd correctly but at the same time, he ended up breaking the right prong where the T-bar glides along when he went to put the BBU back in. Hence, why I bought a new one off you.

Once you clip that prong off, the BBU is useless with any other brand of slide.

...which is why I was hesitant in the first place to do the mod.

I wonder what the purpose of this is though... I don't really see what the thought is on engineering something like this. I mean, that prong helps guide the loading muzzle, does it not? So I would assume that one would design something what doesn't require such a permanent modd on a important part....

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by e-luder

I actually don't know what make the barrel is. But judging from the look of it, it looks like a stock WE 4.3 cone outer barrel. It has that weird silver finish to it and the thread adapter that most WE guns come with these days.

Creation barrels also have this threaded end. It's a two-piece barrel, with the front being a CNC machined aluminum with a fairly bright finish, and a die-cast zinc-aluminum chamber which has a more dull finish. The differences in finish look weird, but it makes it obvious how it was manufactured to keep costs low.

Originally Posted by e-luder

Does it come in a 4.3 length?

Yes, absolutely. The ILLusion Kinetics barrel does come in a 4.3 length bull barrel. I have a few in stock right now.

Originally Posted by e-luder

Hmm. Does it only work on a two piece system? I'm trying to picture what you mean here but it seems like a complicated fabrication of machinery...

Yes, you need a two-piece setup to create this spring loaded mechanism. It's basically a replication of the Marui Detonics spring loading system, or if you want to go further back, you can look at many of the Western Arms setups that also use a spring loading mechanism to automatically tilt the barrel back. It does require the use of a spring, some sort of a spring guide/base, and a retention mechanism to hold the spring against the inner barrel. One of my pistols with a Shooters Design SS two piece outer barrel set in it has such a setup in it. However, it's in storage right now, so I can't take a photo of the mechanism for you. I'll see if I can get it back some time soon, and take a photo for you.

I could take a photo of the Detonics setup for you, so you can get an idea of how the system is arranged. You can then replicate it yourself if you're handy enough.

For the time, effort, and trouble... I find it easier to do the one-piece "fixed" barrels, although, the action is not as realistic.

Originally Posted by e-luder

I wonder what the purpose of this is though... I don't really see what the thought is on engineering something like this. I mean, that prong helps guide the loading muzzle, does it not? So I would assume that one would design something what doesn't require such a permanent modd on a important part....

It beats me, and to be honest, I don't think there is actually a "purpose" for it, as far as practicality for the end user. I think the only purpose for it, is because it was just cheaper and easier for them to do it this way, as it lowers manufacturing costs. The less complications there are, the cheaper it is. Sadly, MOST of the Guarder slides require some sort of destructive modification like this. Their P226 setup is notoriously crap, as it requires you to file down the sides of the blowback unit.... :smack:

[twisted concept]

Thanks for the write up!

[e-luder]

Creation barrels also have this threaded end. It's a two-piece barrel, with the front being a CNC machined aluminum with a fairly bright finish, and a die-cast zinc-aluminum chamber which has a more dull finish. The differences in finish look weird, but it makes it obvious how it was manufactured to keep costs low.

The Creation ones still has a nicer finish than what I have though...
This is mine...


It's duller. I find the Creation the barrels are OK at best. BUt they are too light for my liking. Plus they wear fast..

My current barrel "works" more or less. But it just "floats" now since it doesn't actually lock unto anything nor does it tilt. But once in a while, it will still jam.

Yes, absolutely. The ILLusion Kinetics barrel does come in a 4.3 length bull barrel. I have a few in stock right now.

I'll be PM'ing you soon. I'd rather get a barrel that can fix my issues once and for all.

Alternatively though, I've managed to source out the Airsoft Surgeon ones but they cost an arm and a leg to get. THey have the "economy" one but I feel like it will be too light since it's made out of aluminium. Plus everyone is always sold out of the 4.3 version in both their aluminum and stainless versions.

Is there any discernable difference between IK's fixed barrel and AS's stainless versions other than markings?

one thing also, since these barrels "glide" over the locking lugs, does the slide actually rock back fourth on return? To my understanding, the lugs are suppose to prevent this,right?

Yes, you need a two-piece setup to create this spring loaded mechanism. It's basically a replication of the Marui Detonics spring loading system, or if you want to go further back, you can look at many of the Western Arms setups that also use a spring loading mechanism to automatically tilt the barrel back. It does require the use of a spring, some sort of a spring guide/base, and a retention mechanism to hold the spring against the inner barrel. One of my pistols with a Shooters Design SS two piece outer barrel set in it has such a setup in it. However, it's in storage right now, so I can't take a photo of the mechanism for you. I'll see if I can get it back some time soon, and take a photo for you.

I could take a photo of the Detonics setup for you, so you can get an idea of how the system is arranged. You can then replicate it yourself if you're handy enough.

I thought that spring only centers the inner barrel. I never thought it actually had anything to do with the tilt of the barel...

In any case, that seems a bit hard to replicate. One thing that already jumps out at me is that spring stopper thingy near the hop up. I can probably fashion a piece but accommodating it seems to require a bit of ingenuity.

also, cutting a notch for the O-ring on the inner barrel...

I assume, any spring will do on your version? The one on the detonics pictured above seems like it has a wider end near the hop unit.

I've tried looking for this mod on ASC but to no avail...

Nevertheless, this is a pretty smart idea to implement on a longer Marui barrel set up...

the action is not as realistic.

Function>realism any day of the week

sadly, MOST of the Guarder slides require some sort of destructive modification like this.

I went the other way and waste the slide itself to get the NEW bbu in there. LaZouche had a pretty decent fix on his youtube channel. But Again, what a waste of money though to get a part and then butcher it after...

I'm considering just getting a new Shuey slide from Shooter's Design. Hopefully, I won't have to do much to get it work properly. Sometimes they are a bit cumbersome to install, at least on the Glock platform...

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by e-luder

The Creation ones still has a nicer finish than what I have though...
This is mine...
*image snip*

It's duller. I find the Creation the barrels are OK at best. BUt they are too light for my liking. Plus they wear fast..

My current barrel "works" more or less. But it just "floats" now since it doesn't actually lock unto anything nor does it tilt. But once in a while, it will still jam.

Ah... yeah... I have no idea what brand that is. I haven't seen that brand before.
It looks soft (the material, that is).

Originally Posted by e-luder

I'll be PM'ing you soon. I'd rather get a barrel that can fix my issues once and for all.

It's still not a direct drop in fit. I think I mentioned earlier, that you will still need to do a few mods to get it to function well with a Guarder slide (yay, Guarder). Specifically, a flat needs to be filed in to the recoil rod bushing.

Originally Posted by e-luder

Alternatively though, I've managed to source out the Airsoft Surgeon ones but they cost an arm and a leg to get. THey have the "economy" one but I feel like it will be too light since it's made out of aluminium. Plus everyone is always sold out of the 4.3 version in both their aluminum and stainless versions.

Is there any discernable difference between IK's fixed barrel and AS's stainless versions other than markings?

Only the markings are different. They come from the same factory. A few of the ILLusion Kinetics barrels also have round indicator notches cut in to them as well, or may have threaded adapters for silenceres.

Originally Posted by e-luder

one thing also, since these barrels "glide" over the locking lugs, does the slide actually rock back fourth on return? To my understanding, the lugs are suppose to prevent this,right?

That's incorrect. The lugs are there to allow the slide to interface with the barrel. The lugs act as teeth to grab on to the barrel to pull it backwards for the tilt cycle.

I'm not sure what you mean by the slide "rocking back and forth on return".

Originally Posted by e-luder

I thought that spring only centers the inner barrel. I never thought it actually had anything to do with the tilt of the barel...

When you see it in action, if you try to pull the inner barrel out the back of the outer barrel and let go, it will spring back forward. That's the action. The hop up chamber and inner barrel are fixed in place in the gun. The outer barrel moves, and the spring mechanism forces the natural position of the outer barrel to be tilted back and down.

Originally Posted by e-luder

In any case, that seems a bit hard to replicate. One thing that already jumps out at me is that spring stopper thingy near the hop up. I can probably fashion a piece but accommodating it seems to require a bit of ingenuity.

You wouldn't be replicating it directly. That spring base interfaces with a lock hole in the Detonics outer barrel. You won't see this in other outer barrels for longer lengths, unless you cut it in yourself... and you'd need to cut its location very precisely. This is why the two-piece barrel setups are easier to do a similar mod. With the outer barrel removed, you'd install the inner barrel assembly first. Then, you fabricate the mechanism to the inner barrel and have it press against the chamber.

But... if you decide to do the Detonics method, I have a few of the spring bases on hand. I bought a few, including the spring and o-ring, to replicate this exactly for a few test setups. The hardest part I've found, is locating the lock hole for the base.

Originally Posted by e-luder

also, cutting a notch for the O-ring on the inner barrel...

Not necessary. I just use a thick wind of tape to retain the spring.

Originally Posted by e-luder

I assume, any spring will do on your version? The one on the detonics pictured above seems like it has a wider end near the hop unit.

I've tried looking for this mod on ASC but to no avail...

Nevertheless, this is a pretty smart idea to implement on a longer Marui barrel set up...

I just use old stock recoil springs. The inner diameter just barely fits this inner barrel, so you do need to open the coils a bit wider for free movement.

[skag187]

wow!
this is one thick thread
only about 2-3 hours into it so far,
Here's what I want to build
base gun TM hi capa extreme

planed
black aluminum SD infinity slide
longer grip safety
extended slide release
dytac glo sights

my questions are on
A) required internal durability mods (I plan to use propane)
I was planning on 150% hammer and recoil springs (maybe just the recoil spring)
piston head
don't know what nozzle to use tho
nineball bucking (maybe R-hop it)
possibly either a nineball or TK twist barrel
B) I want to use a non tilting barrel, but AS are wayy too pricey how much are other options?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by skag187

wow!
this is one thick thread
only about 2-3 hours into it so far,
Here's what I want to build
base gun TM hi capa extreme

planed
black aluminum SD infinity slide
longer grip safety
extended slide release
dytac glo sights

my questions are on
A) required internal durability mods (I plan to use propane)
I was planning on 150% hammer and recoil springs (maybe just the recoil spring)
piston head
don't know what nozzle to use tho
nineball bucking (maybe R-hop it)
possibly either a nineball or TK twist barrel
B) I want to use a non tilting barrel, but AS are wayy too pricey how much are other options?

- Why go with an extended slide release if the slide does not even lock back?

- The Dytac glow sights suck huge nuts. If you want something more effective, get Nitesiters if you must have glow in the dark capability. If not, Daysiters are more effective in almost all situations where there is available light.


A)
- Use both the hammer and recoil spring
- I like Airsoft Surgeon or Shooters Design POM nozzles
- Good luck finding a TK Twist barrel in the 4.3 length. If you can find any, let me know. I've never found any, but would like one.

B) The only other cheaper option to the AS non-tilting barrel, are the light weight Nine Ball aluminum fixed barrels... but again, good luck finding one in 4.3. As far as I know, they aren't even in production.
Beyond that, the only other option, are the ILLusion Kinetics barrels, but dollar to dollar, it's a bit more. Factor in shipping costs, taxes, etc, and ILLusion Kinetics barrels come out to be cheaper.

[e-luder]

You wouldn't be replicating it directly. That spring base interfaces with a lock hole in the Detonics outer barrel. You won't see this in other outer barrels for longer lengths, unless you cut it in yourself... and you'd need to cut its location very precisely. This is why the two-piece barrel setups are easier to do a similar mod. With the outer barrel removed, you'd install the inner barrel assembly first. Then, you fabricate the mechanism to the inner barrel and have it press against the chamber.

But... if you decide to do the Detonics method, I have a few of the spring bases on hand. I bought a few, including the spring and o-ring, to replicate this exactly for a few test setups. The hardest part I've found, is locating the lock hole for the base.

So I finally got around to doing this before I left to go far far away from Kingston...

Here's how it looks:




The spring mechanism....
I made it like how the Marui Five-Se7en outer barrels and recoil springs mounts with a rubber stopper inside the spring base..

I must say, the results are astounding. The slide was giving me issues even with this stock plastic outer barrel. Now, it jams no more... Good test run!
I can see why you'd need the two piece system. Drilling the holes on this is pretty hard in itself.

The hardest part was actually finding a damn screw to lock the spring base and outbarrel together...

Only the markings are different. They come from the same factory. A few of the ILLusion Kinetics barrels also have round indicator notches cut in to them as well, or may have threaded adapters for silenceres.

One last thing about this, this barrel is compatible with any slide, correct? I don't foresee any problems marrying it to other brand slides since it won't touch the lugs at all.

Or would you recommend I acquire a matching Illusion Kinetics slide as well?

EDIT: After hours of testing, I found that the spring base wasn't needed to for keeping the spring from pressing on the hop up unit. I cheated and just drilled four holes around the chamber and used the screws to hold the spring in place. It works more or less. The way I understood it is that the hop up unit is suppose to spring back when I pull it apart from the barrel. This method does the job and also centers the inner barrel using the four screw...kind of.
I find that as long as the spring interfaces with the outer barrel, it creates that "springiness" that i need to pull the barrel. Though, I imagine this will probably be harder to achieve on a metal barrel...

[skag187]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

- Why go with an extended slide release if the slide does not even lock back?

- The Dytac glow sights suck huge nuts. If you want something more effective, get Nitesiters if you must have glow in the dark capability. If not, Daysiters are more effective in almost all situations where there is available light.


A)
- Use both the hammer and recoil spring
- I like Airsoft Surgeon or Shooters Design POM nozzles
- Good luck finding a TK Twist barrel in the 4.3 length. If you can find any, let me know. I've never found any, but would like one.

B) The only other cheaper option to the AS non-tilting barrel, are the light weight Nine Ball aluminum fixed barrels... but again, good luck finding one in 4.3. As far as I know, they aren't even in production.
Beyond that, the only other option, are the ILLusion Kinetics barrels, but dollar to dollar, it's a bit more. Factor in shipping costs, taxes, etc, and ILLusion Kinetics barrels come out to be cheaper.

so, 6.03mm nine ball it will be then
its just difficult to justify $100.00 for an outer barrel (crazy would be a better word, as that's more than 1/2 the cost of a new TM extreme)
so I guess a tilting barrel for now, or maybe just the threaded on front part

I have been having trouble finding fiber optic sights for a 4.3, that's w hy I was going to settle on the dytac glo sights
but if you, or anyone knows of an adjustable set of fiber sights for a 4.3 please, by all means let me know (my google-fu seems to be weak this am)