Shredder's Concave Spacers

[Con Murder]

Originally Posted by Kid

So... is the free shipping deal still on at Capital? How do I take advantage of that?

Or.. where can they currently be had the cheapest at?

No its over. Capital sells them and so does airsoftparys.ca its under $10 and you can pair it with a guarder clear for best results and that $20 or so will be the most effective upgrade for the price.

Small note, I used scs with echo1 rubber and had to crank it to have range. Got the guarder and slipped half of the guarder nub (cut in half) above the scs. Do not do this, I had over hop problems and ripped it when trying to fix it

[Amos]

I've got a whole bunch of extra SCS that I could throw into the mail lol

I use 'em with guarder clear rubbers.. as long as you're VERY careful adjusting the hop-up and do it a tiny bit by tiny bit there's not really any problems except for increased wear.

[Azathoth]

I started shooting SCS + ARS Rubber. Best results so far.

[Able1]

how do these things work on ics hop ups?

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

I started shooting SCS + ARS Rubber. Best results so far.

ARS makes hop up rubber?

[Jagd]

Is there that much of a big difference with the bumb of the ruber not removed? Because I have one on my Mp5K and I did not removed the rubber and I can't imagine my gun to be more accurate than it is right now...I kept the stock CA black ruber because with the guarder clear, the opening was too big and I was double shooting BBs alot.

[lanepratt]

sorry for the noob question but what bump are we talking about here, any pics??

[Con Murder]

Look at a picture of an AEG inner barrel, now look at a picture of a guarder clear. Can you spot the 'bubble' looking thing in the rubber? It goes into the crevasse on the tip of the barrel, on the side that feeds the bbs down the barrel. The bump is mainly to help stock hop-up nubs make contact with the bb.

[Kid]

Hmm... what?

[coach]

In all my applications using the SCS I've left the rubber stock. Used with both the guarder clears and madbull blue rubbers. Bump is still there and no over hop or jamming. Hopup on my AEG's are around or just below the midpoint. BB's just keep going on forever with the SCS.

[m102404]

Originally Posted by lanepratt

sorry for the noob question but what bump are we talking about here, any pics??

Go right back to the beginning of the thread and read through the info...and read through the link to the orginial post.

http://shredderscs.proboards.com/ind...play&thread=33

Then do a search for "Hopup"...somewhere buried in here there is a good pictoral explanation of how hopup is applied to a BB.

The short(-ish) explanation is...

Most hopup rubbers (almost all) have a rubber bump (looks like a little wart) on the inside of the rubber. This bump is pressed down into the barrel...essentially blocking the path of the BB. Since the BB is being forced through, and since the rubber is...rubber, the BB will squeeze it's way through and the friction between the two will impart spin to the BB. As shots are made the bump may apply friction more to one side or the other of the BB. If it applied it perfectly at the top (12 oclock position looking from the chamber down the inner barrel)...then it's be perfect.

How evenly and consistently that friction is applied has long been a "holy grail" of airsoft. The SCS spacer is shaped to match the radius of the typical quality BB. So...in theory it should evenly "grip" the BB as it passes by...applying a nice consistent hopup spin.

Now....removing the bump or not...if you've got a bump on the rubber and then put a concaved spacer there to push that bump into the barrel...then you're not really applying the "matched curve" that the spacer was designed for. Theoretically a flat piece of rubber (to provide friction) would retain the concaved shape and result in an even grip. Sounds logical right?

The issue is that there are no rubber produced that don't have a bump...so guys flip one inside out and trim the bump off so that it's not a flat surface. Sharp hobby knife and 400+grit wet dry sandpaper does the trick.

...however...then most setups like that tend not to have enough actuating range (the range of movement from the hopup arm) to apply enough hopup (since you just cut ~1-1.5mm of material out of the rubber). So a spacer of rubber or other material may be needed so that the spacer can push the "now-flat" hopup rubber down into the barrel far enough to impart enough spin.

I've setup more than a few...seen the results. Personally....I think it's fine to chase that perfect cross country shot if you're bored and plinking away. However....I've found that at most games/skirmishes/etc...there's more than enough running & gunning and adverse weather/winds that uber long range is rarely a limiting factor.

I've seen plenty of "normal" setups that have consistently shot like smart bomb Patriot missles for as far as anyone can track it. PTW's with their hopup redone and tuned...AEG's carefully setup...etc...

IMHO...these SCS spacers are fine for "meh...I'll try something new just for the hell of it". But for "I just want my gun to shoot so I can spend less time working on my gun and more time in-game"...I don't think they're worth it (time/money).

[Jagd]

Also tbh if you are using a soft type of ruber even if there is the bubble is still there, as long as it is a soft rubber the BB in going through the barrel, I assume that the force from the shot will somewhat compress the bubble enough so that it will still take the shape of the SCS.

The bubble might be a problem with a hard type rubber, but I am pretty sure it does not affect really the performance on a soft one and like M10 mentionned before me, now you have a chance that the range of movement from the hopup arm will not be wide enough and you will now be not able to apply enough hop once the bump removed which is much worst.

I would say what matters most is not the bumb, but more the groove in the hop-up arm where the SCS rest that makes a difference. If you are using an AK type hop-up system that being said (my MP5K and AK 105 are using the same system so) you have to file the groove in the arm so that the SCS rest evenly inside it, because if you put it stock like that most of the time the groove is more tilted to the right or left, it is not perfectly even.

With regular rubber bucking since the bucking is soft this angle does not really affect anything, but with the SCS if you put it stock and it is tilted a bit, this will screw up your accuracy more than the bumb trust me!

[m102404]

Let me elaborate a little bit on why I don't think it's worth it...

Mainly my opinion stems from weighing the purpose/intent of what this modification is trying to achieve against the cost/time/feasibility of it.

I see the purpose/intent of this mod to be: Apply as much even contact to the BB to apply a centered, consistent amount of hopup for each shot.

I'm of the opinion that why part of the theory of the mod is sound (i.e. matching the concave radius to a typical quality BB)...the practical feasibility in attaining the original purpose/intent does not support it's general application.

I'm not saying that it can't be done...I'm saying that it takes as much (and a little more) care and attention as nicely setting up a regular hopup. And in that vein...not worth it (IMHO).

Further:
- tolerances of AEGs and all the parts in there are kind of sloppy. We're not assembling a finely tuned precision engine here.
- if the purpose of the spacer...i.e. the intent of this whole exercise...is to apply a perfectly centered, even amount of hopup to every shot...then there are several critical points to note:
-- the surface of the rubber...must be "perfectly smooth/even" for the entire contact patch that will touch the BB...this takes careful diligence to do to a hopup rubber
-- leaving a hopup rubber with the bump in it and using a concave spacer results is a mishmash of radii...sure it might "squish" itself or "break" itself into shape...but that's not really the objective is it?
-- the spacer must sit perfectly perpendicular to the long axis of the bore
-- the spacer must sit perfectly centered in the horizontal axis of the bore
since the positioning of the spacer is determined by several factors, it's positioning and orientation is affected by
-- the size of the cutout in the inner barrel...a large cut will allow lateral movement of the spacer
-- the rotational position of the inner barrel
-- the "cup" of the hopup arm and the fit/tolerance of that arm in the hopup unit
-- etc, etc, etc...basically all the loose tolerances start to "stack"

...I fully realize that this is being pretty picky...lots of times good enough is good enough. And certainly to each their own...if you think it rocks...go for it...that's part of the hobby.

[lanepratt]

thanks tys, yes i have read threw the whole post and seen the pic's and what not but was still a lil confused, you explained it perfect and i totally get it now


thanks again

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

ARS makes hop up rubber?

http://www.airsoftresearchsyndicate....tegory&path=44

Top left.

They jacked their price up quite a bit from the last time i bought. Or I have a really bad memory.