Propylene and GBBR's anyone tried it?

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by Fox62

I know, it depends a lot on gun and mags as I said earlier. But I'm just not convinced about heat and cold affecting FPS of the gun that much. We have temperatures as high as 40ºC in the summer, and as low a -5ºC in the winter. I haven't chronoed in those extremes, but I've chronoed in 35ºC, and say, 5ºC, and the FPS have been very similar (they did vary a bit, but not dramatically). Maybe it depends on the system as well? My main gun is a precision gun, so I've done extensive testing, but the other GBB's are all "grunt" guns.

To the OP, I've tried Propylene and I've hated it. If you can avoid it, do. If you find that your gun runs well on it on winter and is just not gameable on propane, well, you don't got much of an option.


Fox.

I've got a test for your WE Scar.

Fill the magazine. Take the gun and leave it at -5C area for an hour.

Switch to auto and pull the trigger. It WILL fail to fire all 30 rounds.
(Easy mode test. Fill the magazine. Put it in the freezer for an hour. Remove and fire immediately. It will fail.)

[Fox62]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

I've got a test for your WE Scar.

Fill the magazine. Take the gun and leave it at -5C area for an hour.

Switch to auto and pull the trigger. It WILL fail to fire all 30 rounds.
(Easy mode test. Fill the magazine. Put it in the freezer for an hour. Remove and fire immediately. It will fail.)

Yeah, but who's mag dumping with a GBBR...ever? And in those conditions? Plus, only the mag on the gun's at that temperature, the others should be kept inside your vest, or even on a special pouch for winter to keep 'em warm. If you play semi mostly, with a burst or two, and put the mags away when they are not on the gun, I'm very much sure most modern platforms should be gameable.


Fox.

[Rommen]

Originally Posted by Fox62

Yeah, but who's mag dumping with a GBBR...ever? And in those conditions? If you play semi mostly, with a burst or two, and put the mags away when they are not on the gun, I'm very much sure most modern platforms should be gameable.


Fox.

Well, apparently you are...

Originally Posted by Fox62

I can mag dump a mag (activating the full auto), then load, mag dump again, then load, and it'll shoot as good as new with the mag pretty much frozen on the outside.

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And the magazine that is in your gun is the most important one of all. You aren't going to spot a target, take a mag out of your vest, load your weapon and then shoot him... you're going to have your gun loaded when you're on the field.

Originally Posted by Fox62

Plus, only the mag on the gun's at that temperature, the others should be kept inside your vest, or even on a special pouch for winter to keep 'em warm.

As someone said before me, it is straight science. As temperature drops volatility and vapor pressure drop. There WILL be a decrease in performance (not necessarily performance).

[Cobrajr122]

uhhhhh....Canada plays in those conditions, and colder! -5C is nothing.

[Fox62]

Originally Posted by Rommen

Well, apparently you are...



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And the magazine that is in your gun is the most important one of all. You aren't going to spot a target, take a mag out of your vest, load your weapon and then shoot him... you're going to have your gun loaded when you're on the field.



As someone said before me, it is straight science. As temperature drops volatility and vapor pressure drop. There WILL be a decrease in performance (not necessarily performance).

Yeah, for TESTING purposes. If I wanna play like a noob I just buy an AEG.

Theory is important, but not nearly as much as actually what works and doesn't. The OP first needs to figure out if his system isn't very good. Maybe consider changing for a more modern/reliable one to improve his odds. Then try propane, and if it doesn't work then go for propylene.

Of course the mag that's on the gun matters, but you can leave it on, once you're out change it for a warm one, while that one gets a chance to warm up. Heck, unless you're playing in CQB environments, you usually have a chance to put a mag in; you could virtually play with all your magazines at the ready on the "warm-pouch". Maybe it isn't super realistic, but gaming an AEG is a much worse option if you aim to that...


Fox.

[pancakedestroyer]

Since you obviously haven't tried to game a GBB in cold weather, and I'm not talking -5 I'm talking about -15 and colder. I will give you some first hand insight.
Your propane mags will not function for s*it in the f*cking cold regardless of what magic you've performed on them to make them reliable.
Propane + Cold = Unreliable. It isn't just theory, its science! You don't have to "believe" it. We're telling you its fact.

You linked us to a video of a kid who shot 1 mag through a G36 and then couldn't dump the 2nd mag due to cool down. Yup, seems about right.

Who fires full auto with a GBB in the cold? Lots of people if you're trying to lay down covering fire and you don't have someone with a support gun close by and for some unknown decided it was a good idea to game your GBBR in the f*cking cold.

It really doesn't matter if you've got the mags in a vest with hand warmers and all sorts of other junk to keep them warm, as soon as you take them out the weather makes all that pretty much moot. This is accurate for the climate I play in, as well as probably 90% of the other people in Canada. Exception being BC, they've got lame sissy winters.

Fox, your idea of cold is our idea of t-shirt weather.

Originally Posted by Fox62

Yeah, for TESTING purposes. If I wanna play like a noob I just buy an AEG.

Theory is important, but not nearly as much as actually what works and doesn't. The OP first needs to figure out if his system isn't very good. Maybe consider changing for a more modern/reliable one to improve his odds. Then try propane, and if it doesn't work then go for propylene.

Of course the mag that's on the gun matters, but you can leave it on, once you're out change it for a warm one, while that one gets a chance to warm up. Heck, unless you're playing in CQB environments, you usually have a chance to put a mag in; you could virtually play with all your magazines at the ready on the "warm-pouch". Maybe it isn't super realistic, but gaming an AEG is a much worse option if you aim to that...


Fox.

[redzaku]

Originally Posted by Fox62

Yeah, for TESTING purposes. If I wanna play like a noob I just buy an AEG.

Theory is important, but not nearly as much as actually what works and doesn't. The OP first needs to figure out if his system isn't very good. Maybe consider changing for a more modern/reliable one to improve his odds. Then try propane, and if it doesn't work then go for propylene.

Of course the mag that's on the gun matters, but you can leave it on, once you're out change it for a warm one, while that one gets a chance to warm up. Heck, unless you're playing in CQB environments, you usually have a chance to put a mag in; you could virtually play with all your magazines at the ready on the "warm-pouch". Maybe it isn't super realistic, but gaming an AEG is a much worse option if you aim to that...


Fox.

this is called airsoft Canada for a reason, winter in Canada can vary from -20 to -40 (if one city is unlucky)

[Basic-Wedge]

A guy from Argentina giving advice on playing airsoft in cold weather? That's awesome!

BTW, I am going to give propylene a try, but I think a "winter spring" might be just as useful.

[MaciekA]

Wikipedia:

The lowest temperature ever recorded in central Buenos Aires (Buenos Aires Central Observatory) was −5.4 °C (22 °F) on 9 July 1918.

Many of the people I play with consider the bare minimum definition of "cold" to start at your apparent location's lowest temperature record ever. I've seen plenty of people try gaming their gas guns in the winter here and I've seen my share of "2 shots then spurts and nothing much else".

I will of course bow out of this if you travel outside of your area to play, I know there are entire regions of Argentina that get very very cold and are tundra-like.

[Fox62]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

Wikipedia:



Many of the people I play with consider the bare minimum definition of "cold" to start at your apparent location's lowest temperature record ever. I've seen plenty of people try gaming their gas guns in the winter here and I've seen my share of "2 shots then spurts and nothing much else".

I will of course bow out of this if you travel outside of your area to play, I know there are entire regions of Argentina that get very very cold and are tundra-like.

Oh, so you don't run gas guns yourself? Helluva first hand experience.

Really? Every game in winter is on the -20 - -40 ºC range?

January in Calgary was just dandy (least the weather...). Don't think a day was below -5.

If all your games are on that range, well, then yeah, try propylene or whatever. It's like 3 months straight of -20 - -40 days, I understand. GBB's are bad for ya.


Fox.

[wind_comm]

Originally Posted by Fox62

January in Calgary was just dandy (least the weather...). Don't think a day was below -5.

...don't know what you're on about.

guys here are _DEFINITELY_ using MAPP gas in the winter.

[Derpystronk]

Alright, this is nonsense. We are arguing with someone over whether or not propane actually sucks in the cold. It's a waste of everyone's god damned time to argue over something that has long since been established as common sense. I have run into countless individuals who specifically did not get a GBBR due to it's inability to retain functionality in the winter months.

I suggest to ignore him - because he either has no idea what he is talking about or is deliberating trying to waste time - and continue with the discussion as posted.

[L473ncy]

@Fox: Umm... MaciekA definitely knows what he's talking about.

He provides high quality reviews and knowledge that works and is scientifically sound. I honestly don't know what you're on about. Now you're trying to backtrack and attack the person and not the argument? That's the ad hominem fallacy if I've ever seen it.

[Ross]

c'mon Fox. The colder the temp, the lower the pressure, the slower that bolt is going to move down your scar, thus more gas will be expelled to complete the cycle. Yes, you can keep your mags warmer to lessen this. But it's still going to be shitty.

[redzaku]

Even though you use a "warm" pouch, regardless, you forget to account for weather condition and reality, it will get cold, like apple pie, fresh out of the oven, what do you do to cool it down, you place it near the window and let the air to cool it to desired temperature