Is Blacksheep Milsim coming to Canada?

[R.T Plissken]

"Game start 1000 Saturday, Aug 3
Game endex 1600 Sunday Aug 4.'
31 Hours in the field!
Add in many many extra hours of pack in, pack out, Debrief, travel, this was one demanding OP but every single committed player, gave it their all for the ENTIRE duration! For that, we are extremely impressed, and thankful to have such awesome people in this community!
Every single player who went in together, exfilled together at op endex. This is an incredible testament to all who attended, give yourselves a ton of credit! This event could not have gone the same without the operators in it. Blackthorne and myself created the world, you were all the operating in it."

That was Renegade on his AAR of Operation Art of War a 30 hour milsim and the average Blacksheep game is 12 hours; OP Shelby was a "small" event of 200 people. I can not see why that would not be a good place to start.

The dedicated players will play and the chairsofters will still pretend to play; I do not think we can not try it just because not everyone will commit. Determined players will give their all to create a positive playing environment for the rest of the players. It builds an atmosphere that keeps players from sleeping in their cars and leaving the OP's early, I mean how many attendants will be sleeping in their car at NF3? Probably a fraction of those who did in NF2 and thats thanks in part to the community essentially saying they will ostracize those who do it for this particular game.

Delta you recommended a team not attend your Absent Vulture game for potentially being over their heads and you are probably right; its not for everyone thats getting into the sport. There are games geared towards them such as your newbie friendly 18hr Operator Operator 2 that is a longer milsim to introduce them to the idea of playing for more than 3hrs at a time.

But again for the 344 confirmed dedicated players that are attending NF3 (+ all those that did not get in) should be a pretty good indicator that we can host and generate interest for large scale events.

[CR0M]

Cars are a safety blanket. If they are easily accessible players will go to them(if the game is slow, if they are tired, etc etc)

But if your venue is big enough and can make going to the car a hassle, more players will stick around. I love picton but the cars are too accessible.

[Brit ter]

I have a three ton dutch army truck itching to get to a big game !

[Brit ter]

Daf ya 314 Only one of a kind in all of North America !

[QKLee11]

Major John Bucciarelli is far from arrogant. He is a friend of mine and called me last Thursday on a small project he wants to do with veterans Post traumactic Stress Syndrome.

BLACKSHEEP 6 MILSIM games are on average of 24 hours not 12. This is why Force Recon has always gone to his events, sometimes twice or three times a year.

I have said it before and I will say it again, "He puts on large MIILSIMS at Coy Level that encourages Squad integrity, Team work in an enviroment that provides realism to test you physically, mentally and tactically". It isn't always CQB or FIBUA...Operation Cove was a far more challenging MILSIM I have ever been to in the Airsoft Community. That event only had 100ppl...gee Fletch you could of been apart of it but you chose not to go.

He has talked before about coming to Canada and getting a venue...the logistics and the planning is the key...if he does come Force Recon will definitely support him and John wants to come up in June if Time permits to see our Event. John knows there are alot of ppl in Canada who want to attend his events dispite the naysayers out there.

Our game is essentially the same...however the reason why this event took off is because 160 ppl got tired of the other OPs out there and wanted a change...tired of other hosts "Attitudes"...we heard this loud and clear through out the community. So we took the ball and ran with it. Those 160 ppl who took a leap of faith with us made it possible.

Everyone has their opinion on what MILSIM is, I stated in the MILSIM Thread (God forbid) as a former Reservist SGT and been on 2 Operational Taskings, I have yet too see a game that delivers entirely on MILSIM (although Cove was close for Field/Battle Craft, Navigation and Patroling). If someone is running a MILSIM event that I am going to attend, Blacksheep 6 Milsim is the product that I want...although the National Guard in Buffalo put on a good one in 2010....just because an Op is advertised as 30 hours or 24 hours doesn't make it any better then an 8 hour scenario...Force Recon found out the hard way on Sovereign Fury...which had the site and venue...all I can say I am looking attending more Canadian Ops this year, just put on a good event thats cost effective...we could of charged $120 but we want keep our events economically Viable for everyone.

BLACKSHEEP 6 MILSIM is more then welcome to Canada...It would be nice to see an Regional Areas or Teams put on their own MILSIMs/Events...areas like Barrie, Niagara Falls, Ottawa, Quebec, Pettawawa, Nova Scotia.

Q

[R.T Plissken]

I got my facts regarding average time from foxtrot one-7 and not their website directly; I should have stated Shelby itself was only 12 hours not their average game (OP Bobriwka was 13 hours with OP Cove being 24 as well as OP Guernsey being 24). My point was just they don't strictly do the 24 hour shindig, they have some other tricks up their sleeves.

QKLee11 I wasn't trying to offend either; your Force Recon milsims are the frigging bee's knees here in Canada; coast to coast. I really don't think anything else can compare for this particular style of game, I mean selling almost a ticket a second in under 7 minutes and change?? That is unbelievable and a testament to the professional level of game you run and how highly regarded FR is.

But Blacksheep and Force Recon putting on an event together? Shit you could dig a grave and roll me in after the final de-brief (and clean up of course) because I could die a happy and fulfilled man.

[R.T Plissken]

Originally Posted by QKLee11

all I can say I am looking attending more Canadian Ops this year, just put on a good event thats cost effective...we could of charged $120 but we want keep our events economically Viable for everyone. Q

I agree with keeping it Canadian though and keeping the price down. It's like the price of guns over the last decade, the more Canadian retailers that are able to stock them, the more competitive the pricing becomes and the consumer ends up saving money. If we can saturate the market with large scale milsims (Triglav, Nightfalls, Art of War, I'm not going to keep going on...) they can't charge an exorbitant and gouge players as no one would want to attend. Then again we do get what we pay for; if I have to pay an extra $10 - $20 to see Brit ter's 3 ton dutch army truck or a Blackhawk (... I meant Sea King...) helicopter do fly buys than you can take my money, happily.

That's why I think a joint venture between well known Canadian Milsim groups and an experienced Blacksheep team could benefit the community of players. The knowledge and understanding of the Canadian market and player coupled with the experience of a veteran milsim organization? It seems like everyone could win.

And if it doesn't work we send them back across the border :P

[QKLee11]

None Taken, but there other Teams out there who could put on a Reasonable and cost effective event and has Realsim where the Operators decide the out come...not a script...persoanlly I don't like the point formula but it gives the Players a reason to keep fighting during the night over the Objectives...too take it, destroy it, capture it and defend it. FRAGO's, I personally would like to see at Command level make up important missions during the game to execute for their own benefit...but we have found that new Teams starting into the "MILSIM WORLD" have found our FRAGO's challenging and a good Team builder...I still remember on NF 1 when a Team was successful from Executing its Mission and was successful, the Section Cmdr looked at me and said "That was our 1rst Team mission and we were successful yeahhh"...FRAGO's are Team builders.

Like I said I am going to attend some Canadian Events this year... but when I go, I want an event that is at least 18 hours to 24 hours long...not really into 8 hour events.

Q

[R.T Plissken]

You are right, at the end of the day (or days) if the player hasn't felt like they truly accomplished or achieved their own goals then they don't walk away with any satisfaction. My teams' first large scale experience was NF1 and they still relieve and retell their personal harrowing acts of valour to this day. I won't go down south to support American games while we still have the level of commitment we do here in Canada, just going back to the OP I think it is possible for BlackSheep Milsim to come here to Canada; in want regards is still yet to be seen or fully understood (I believe a joint-venture would be extremely interesting and the best option).

[HackD]

My own perspective on this is extremely limited by my experience. However, i do think i've had enough insight thus far, to draw some valid observations and conclusions both from chair-softing, and attending the limited events that i have. I have played a scant handful of skirmish venues the past 3 years in the southern Ontario region, and my comfort zone is with one in particular due to the largely drama-free, more mature-player oriented nature of that venue.. I do however, have the desire to expand upon that, whether it be through milsim or mil-skirm.

I made my first foray into that with OP Triglav last fall - while that event held much in promise, it was let down by equal-parts weather and player's lack of preparedness, as well as an apparent boycott from the start, by more established teams over what i perceived as fairly silly reasons to do so. Aside from weather, there was absolutely no other reason why that event should not have been successful. It had pretty much everything that people are indicating that they want, in a Milsim/complex mil-skirm environment.

NF3 has proven that we do apparently have the available player base (in Ontario) in numbers to hold large 'OPS' .. whether those be a full-on Milsim, Milsim 'lite' edition, Mil-Skirmishes.. whatever.

I do think the issue of a successful milsim environment - organized, attended and successfully completed to the satisfaction of all involved, also lies within the existing Player maturity base.

From an age-mature outsider perspective looking in, i've seen far too much elitism going on, and too much 'I' interfering in what should be a Team environment. Too much politics going on, too much of 'i want to play with my buddies or i won't come' factor going on, and too much Ego evident - this may be a factor of the player age/experience demographics going on North of the Border. The US milsim landscape appears to made up of a largely more mature, military-service experience-oriented environment that is more conducive to effectively well-run Milsim scenarios. Organizers run events - players make the events successful. Without the player base, the best run and organized event is going to fall flat upon it's face with an audible thud.

Also note, events can and do fail to meet expectations in the US also - not just in Canada. Sometimes the formula can fail in the US, for reasons beyond the organizer's control.

Will Blacksheep 6 fix that for Canada? No, absolutely not. A successful milsim/mil-skirm environment/atmosphere has to come from within, not from outside. It does sound like Force Recon is developing the formula that successfully combines Venue with Player Base to develop a good milsim/mil-skirm environment.. but they do not need to be the only ones to do so.. other successful organizers do not necessarily need to be sourced from outside of this country.. we already have those with the ability to develop that formula as organizers .. we just need the player base to be flexible, prepared and open-minded enough to make these other organizer/organized events work, just as well.

Organizers make the event. Players make the event successful.

JMHO.. take it as you will.

[CR0M]

out of all the milsims Ive done, the one thing thats constant with good games, is host and organizer size.

The more host and organizers the better the games are run.

when your one host and maybe 2 guys helping out, your heavily relying on the players to make the game.

Thats probably why FR does so well with nightfall

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by CR0M

out of all the milsims Ive done, the one thing thats constant with good games, is host and organizer size.

The more host and organizers the better the games are run.

when your one host and maybe 2 guys helping out, your heavily relying on the players to make the game.

Thats probably why FR does so well with nightfall

Thanks Crom.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

New hosts need to cut their teeth on smaller games, run well. New fields need to invite people to come out to small we'll run games. then word of mouth will do your marketing for you.

triglave struggled because an unknown host tried to do a large game at an unknown field. Vet players have been burned enough times by that combination to know enough to take a wait and see approach. You don't want to drive 3 hours, and pay money to find out things are not as advertised.
Fair or not this is how it is.

force Recon has established a solid reputation for putting on a well run event at a known and liked venue. Its no surprise to me that it sold out fast, how could it not? People have been talking about Nightfall for 2 years, the first one was good, the second better, and the pent up demand in a now much larger community was palpable.

At this point FR could host a tiddly winks competition and it would sell out.

If you are new host, watch and learn, start small and build it and you will soon enjoy the success that is earned.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

New hosts need to cut their teeth on smaller games, run well. New fields need to invite people to come out to small we'll run games. then word of mouth will do your marketing for you.

triglave struggled because an unknown host tried to do a large game at an unknown field. Vet players have been burned enough times by that combination to know enough to take a wait and see approach. You don't want to drive 3 hours, and pay money to find out things are not as advertised.
Fair or not this is how it is.

force Recon has established a solid reputation for putting on a well run event at a known and liked venue. Its no surprise to me that it sold out fast, how could it not? People have been talking about Nightfall for 2 years, the first one was good, the second better, and the pent up demand in a now much larger community was palpable.

At this point FR could host a tiddly winks competition and it would sell out.

If you are new host, watch and learn, start small and build it and you will soon enjoy the success that is earned.

Thanks very much Brian. Comments are much appreciated.

We risked thousands of our own dollars for Nightfall 1 on a chance we might see it back. We lucked out. It's a chance you take.
I am glad that we will continue to bring more Milsims to Canada. Potential of a fall Nightfall 4 could be just around the bend.

[QKLee11]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

New hosts need to cut their teeth on smaller games, run well. New fields need to invite people to come out to small we'll run games. then word of mouth will do your marketing for you.

triglave struggled because an unknown host tried to do a large game at an unknown field. Vet players have been burned enough times by that combination to know enough to take a wait and see approach. You don't want to drive 3 hours, and pay money to find out things are not as advertised.
Fair or not this is how it is.

force Recon has established a solid reputation for putting on a well run event at a known and liked venue. Its no surprise to me that it sold out fast, how could it not? People have been talking about Nightfall for 2 years, the first one was good, the second better, and the pent up demand in a now much larger community was palpable.

At this point FR could host a tiddly winks competition and it would sell out.

If you are new host, watch and learn, start small and build it and you will soon enjoy the success that is earned.

I know we don't see eye to eye on certain subjects, however you nailed it on the head.

I would go to one of your games before Trigalev...your a proven game Host. Who knows you could see me in that fall at Deadfall fighting along with Talon and his Rebels. Good luck with your new field.

The money from our events goes into Team Funds to pay for Registrations for Games in USA and for TEAM EQUIPMENT.

Force Recon can run a Field Op for $40...and we plan on bringing one in the future...it is reasonable to run another NF 4 in the Fall.

Looking forward the ASC convention and the swap table.

However, Brian there is room out there everyone...ppl shouldn't worry about our game...they should look at the demand and try to put a product out there on the field that everyone likes.

But Regional areas, try to put on a game...It should be about Teams, the experience and lesson learn for the future.

Q

Q