Break Glass?

Originally Posted by Kid

A bear bottle?

oops my bad

[Greylocks]

Originally Posted by Godfath3r

i am interested as well as in how much does this stuff hurt in general..i don't like dealing with specifics because i have no experience with these things ill admit i am ignorant so can you all tell me some of your related experiances between ranges and impact ..

Show up to a game, bring some window glass, we'll shoot you and you will know.

Or show up to a game and learn.

Or read the FAQ because your questions and a little bit of mathematics would result in answers.

[Gryphon]

Thanks for yet another typical useless canned response, Grey.

Now for a serious answer that you may find helpful, like others have said already it depends on the type of glass you're shooting at and the velocity of the BB when it hits it. If you have a hot gun shooting 500 fps but your glass target is 100 meters distant, you're not likely bound to break it.

If the concern is damage to modern houses and vehicles, the risk is extremely low. Laminated, tempered glass is very strong. If you've ever tried breaking a car window (especially a windshield) you'll know that it's unusually tough stuff. If it can survive a sharp piece of stone flying at 100+ km/h, a 0.20g plastic BB would glance off it as if it were an insect. However like also mentioned previously, mirrors aren't very strong and will likely suffer damage.

This is assuming you are not targeting the glass pane at 10 feet on full auto with a Systema M160 in your gun. Enough constant, applied force on an area will eventually weaken it and it will chip or crack. Older glass panes are also thinner and far more brittle. As an example, my team has a large farm on which we sometimes play and there's an abandoned barn in one spot. It used to have glass windows along the side until we did the St. Valentine's Day Massacre thing on 'em. Most of our guns were upgraded by that point and we noticed that our teammate with the TM M3 Shorty was having much difficulty breaking anything, despite the age and fragility of the old glass. Full auto tore them right out though. Our distance was about 10 meters.

[Greylocks]

Useless? If he does what I suggested, even with the sarcasm, he will get his answers, in person no less.

He will know if glass can be broken.
He will learn a LOT of other important things, much faster than by asking.
He can read the FAQ like everyone else.

Whatever works for him.

You CAN spoonfeed people Gryphon, it's as much your right as it is mine to tell them what to read or where to go. If you dont like my 'canned' answers, dont read them.

BTW, I've seen what an AEG can do to a car. A windshield and side windows will shatter. It was done at an Ottawa field with a junked (recent) car whose glass was not damaged.

[vatek]

It's funny, I always thought the purpose of a forum was to be a place where people can share information, not a place where you get called out as an idiot in front of the entire Canadian airsoft community if you didn't search hard enough or read the all-knowing FAQ.

It's not spoonfeeding or whatever the fuck you want to call it. The whole idea behind a message board is to save yourself the trouble of searching through tons of non-useful results and get an answer from someone with firsthand experience.

It never ceases to amaze me how elitist some people on this board are. I go to Arnies and see someone asking about a China-made gun, and they get tons of useful advice. Come here and ask the same thing, and you get fucking lynched.

I'm rapidly getting tired of people asking valid questions being told to search more, or read the FAQ. Maybe a two-year old thread 30 pages back in the archives doesn't have the information the guy wants. I applaud the people who actually post useful information, because they're serving the purpose of this forum.

The FAQ does not say whether or not a gun will break glass. And going to a game is not useful to answer the question unless someone at the game has actually gone out and shot glass. What's he going to do, ask every single person at the game? Or better yet, stand on top of his car and shout "HAS ANYONE HERE EVER SHOT GLASS WITH YOUR GUN AND WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE DOING SO?!?". Personally, I learned a shitload more and was able to get a lot more specific questions answered HERE than I ever have at a game. There's people here with a LOT bigger knowledge base than people in Calgary, in my personal experience. I learn new things every day on here from people like Illusion, MadMax, or Gryphon (to name only a few names out of many) who actually post information that's relevant.

"Read the FAQ and go to a game" isn't an answer to everything.

[Greylocks]

Please tell me, and everyone else, how reading the FAQ and going to a game/meet will NOT answer all his questions in one shot? Specially going to a meet?

Does the FAQ tell you about glass? No. But it will tell you about basic velocities and BB weights. From there, you can do some maths.

Have you tried it yet? When you were there, did you ask questions or just watch?

You get; to meet the locals who know the game, they know where to shop, they can either verify your age right away or know who can, they can show you guns, they can let you try guns, they can talk about those guns, you can see immediately how they work. And so on.

Is there a better way to learn? I dont think so.

Feel free to answer ALL the questions you wish, I'll continue to point them in a direction where they can get the most information in the shortest time if they bother to try it.

[thephenom]

Originally Posted by vatek

It's not spoonfeeding or whatever the fuck you want to call it. The whole idea behind a message board is to save yourself the trouble of searching through tons of non-useful results and get an answer from someone with firsthand experience.

It never ceases to amaze me how elitist some people on this board are. I go to Arnies and see someone asking about a China-made gun, and they get tons of useful advice. Come here and ask the same thing, and you get fucking lynched.

I'm rapidly getting tired of people asking valid questions being told to search more, or read the FAQ. Maybe a two-year old thread 30 pages back in the archives doesn't have the information the guy wants. I applaud the people who actually post useful information, because they're serving the purpose of this forum.

Asking questions on the forum and open discussion is the what forums are designed for. However, you have to understand there are threads are repeated time over time. (Not referring to this one in particular) You always get the, "Hi, where can I buy cheap airsoft?" or the "Hi, can my mom buy me an airsoft gun even though I'm only 12?".

Airsoft is an adult sport/game, I don't think we need to offer hand-holding or spoonfeeding services personally. There are plenty of info in the FAQ alone to make you get a basic if not a good understanding of the game.

And when you refer to China airsoft, how do you expect CDNs to answer about them? Most of us don't own one since they're not readily available to CDN Airsofter. So at most, you'll get response like this, "I read from blah blah blah website that it's got shitty internals", etc etc.

[vatek]

Phenom: Yes, I tire of the obvious questions as well. But lots of people on this board seem to be carrying over that attitude to questions that don't have to do with basic knowledge, not just the repeated ones. The China airsoft was just an example, and perhaps it was a bad one at that. The vibe I get from reading threads that people make about China airsoft is that "They suck, they're not worth the money, and you're an idiot for even thinking about it." It's the last part that concerns me. This forum as a whole is very hostile to outsiders or newbies. I don't think "will an AEG break glass" is one of those threads that is repeated time after time. I've been here since February and this is the first thread I've seen about it as far as I know.

It's very ironic to me, because in the time a lot of people spend typing out anti-spoonfeeding responses (although I think some people just cut and paste them from a list of pre-made responses in a text file), they could have typed a useful answer instead, and answered the person's question. I'm sure it drives a lot of new players away from the sport.

But, I must get back to the original topic at hand.

I'm only addressing his first question, about glass breaking under AEG/GBB fire. The rest are ones better answered by people other than me.

I don't know about everyone else, but why would I want to calculate the force at which a BB will break glass when I could just ask here and get an answer from someone who has done it already? I got tired enough of physics in high school.

And how is going through the FAQ and going to a game to answer that particular question faster than reading a useful reply in a thread? I can post a question in the morning, go to work, and when I get back there's usually enough useful info to keep me reading for a good 15 minutes.

I asked basic questions (like where to get guns, asking about guns that people there have, and your other examples) at games, but there's a lot of questions that people in my community have not able to answer. For example, virtually no one in my community owns an ICS gun, so what good is it going to do me to ask questions about it at a game? As I said, there's YEARS of accumulated knowledge here, much more than is available in my local scene. I prefer to ask here because there's a lot larger user base, and I can get a lot of useful information, or a lot of differing opinions on something. There's only a couple of hundred active members on the JOC forum, which is basically the entire Calgary scene, and there's what, five or six thousand active here?

Anyway, that's my rant. Take it for what you will, but one of the things I was taught as a kid was "there is no such thing as a stupid question".

[FOX_111]

From experience: Stock guns do break windows. They also break clabor (the plastic stuff outside of houses). So if you plan on playing around your house (granted you are living in a remote hole somewhere out of sight), cover your windows and everything.

[Greylocks]

Vatek, if nobody near you knows about ICS, then you can read the Reviews section? The odds of nobody knowing the answers to most questions are low. Showing up will still answer a good 90% or more of the questions we see every day.

Are you telling me there are no reviews of ICS guns? Telling you to read those would not be rude, it would be saving time for all concerned.

Feel free to cut/paste what is already there for newbies, it's your right.

[Gryphon]

This is an interesting discussion. One of our fields has a bit of an auto junkyard with several vehicles that have the glass intact. A few have bullet holes in them that were produced by small arms fire at one point, mainly a .22, a shotgun, and an SKS. Our field limits are 400 fps for automatic fire and a lot of people are shooting at or near that, and I've yet to see anyone so much as spider crack a glass pane there. Heck, I've even shot at my OWN truck's windows with my SAR M41FS from a distance just for the heck of it cause I was confident they'd be fine (and they were).

It appears this question isn't answered by a simple yes or no. I do agree however that prudence should be used if there is glass in the area that someone doesn't want broken.

Thanks for the props vatek. Some of us here do try to make it reasonably hospitable for newcomers, although we sometimes tire of the same tripe too. Personally if I find a thread that I either can't help out in or simply don't want to, I'll skip it and not waste my time replying. It seems some here though live just for that and jump into any thread they can simply to give someone a hard time, and then ironically enough complain about it later as if they were obligated to say something in the first place.

What I find most amusing is how many posts Greylocks has that are simply lengthy justifications for his methods. If you took the average word count from each of his posts and replaced it with an equal amount of actual informative data you'd probably have a wealth of knowledge that people could actually learn from.

[vatek]

Reviews did not answer questions I had about some internal parts, or what aftermarket outer parts fit (crane stocks, RAS units, etc.)

I will not post any more on this, because it's just going to end up in the trash if this goes on.

Gryphon has summarized what I am trying to get across very well, and I will leave it at that.


However, I may just have to set up some testing with my limited arsenal about this glass question. It's aroused my curiosity as well.

[Mongoose]

This question could have been asnwered by Godfath3r himself.

1) Why would you shoot at glass anyways.
2) If your oppenent is behind glass, simple logic states you should wait till he's
clear of the glass (no one likes getting hit by shards of glass, as well
become a hazard later).

Although I did notice Godfathr3 has only posted like 4 times...so perhaps he's a Newbie! Perhaps if he did as Grey suggested (read the FAQ and such), he may have found this answer himself. Most all answers can be found some where on this site. It doesn't hurt to post if the answers to your questions can't be found or that the answer you found sounds incorrect and want to post to clarify. You can go to a game and ask other players who may have shot glass and inquire what happened. Some may have accidentally hit glass and have an answer. If no one can answer his question on the field, then posting for an answer is more probable. We all have questions that we go to others for answers, if they don't have the answers we're looking for, we seek the answers else where. I agree what Vatek is saying. Although most of us are veteran players and at times we get annoyed by a new player who posts the same questions that we've all read so many times before, we should show some patients with them. Sure we can refer them to read the FAQ and such. Encourage them to try to seek the answers themselves and use all the info that has grown on this site to their benefit and if they can't find the answers they're looking for, then post.

In some degree I agree what Grey is saying, but to shrug every person who has a question to go to the FAQ all the time for the answer I don't agree with. To me, it shows that no one wants to help others out. And could persuade that person that this sport isn't really that fun if you have a question or a problem and no one wants to give advice.

That's my 2 cents on this.

[Godfath3r]

Originally Posted by vatek

It's funny, I always thought the purpose of a forum was to be a place where people can share information, not a place where you get called out as an idiot in front of the entire Canadian airsoft community if you didn't search hard enough or read the all-knowing FAQ.

It's not spoonfeeding or whatever the fuck you want to call it. The whole idea behind a message board is to save yourself the trouble of searching through tons of non-useful results and get an answer from someone with firsthand experience.

It never ceases to amaze me how elitist some people on this board are. I go to Arnies and see someone asking about a China-made gun, and they get tons of useful advice. Come here and ask the same thing, and you get fucking lynched.

I'm rapidly getting tired of people asking valid questions being told to search more, or read the FAQ. Maybe a two-year old thread 30 pages back in the archives doesn't have the information the guy wants. I applaud the people who actually post useful information, because they're serving the purpose of this forum.

The FAQ does not say whether or not a gun will break glass. And going to a game is not useful to answer the question unless someone at the game has actually gone out and shot glass. What's he going to do, ask every single person at the game? Or better yet, stand on top of his car and shout "HAS ANYONE HERE EVER SHOT GLASS WITH YOUR GUN AND WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE DOING SO?!?". Personally, I learned a shitload more and was able to get a lot more specific questions answered HERE than I ever have at a game. There's people here with a LOT bigger knowledge base than people in Calgary, in my personal experience. I learn new things every day on here from people like Illusion, MadMax, or Gryphon (to name only a few names out of many) who actually post information that's relevant.

"Read the FAQ and go to a game" isn't an answer to everything.

Dude it's people like you that make this forum worth going too...when i ask a question i do feel like i'll get lynched and especially when it's one of my friends who would like to learn more about these things without having to waste the money to do so (we're all in our mid 20's)...going out to a game involves me driving at least 2 hours away....I'll be pissed if it was a waste of my time and money

..besides id rather not know an answer for 10 mins then never know it at all.. some of the replies we get on here do not help the purpose of these forums and reflect a community many of the new comers would not like to be apart of im trying to get my friends in this and it's hard enough when i ask one of their questions and i got asshole remarks to the questions they are looking for

[vatek]

Always glad to help.

I don't claim to know as much as a lot of people here, but if I can answer a question, I will.