Gun Buyer Blues (retailer expectations )

[Lakonian]

So long as comms are good, I'm okay.

I waited 3 months for my PTW. I don't know why everyone is crying over 4 days.

[jaymz1911]

I myself been vary happy with the sellers on ASC... Most are just out there to help out the sport, by supporting the retail side in getting in AEG's or GBB's at what ever cost to them as well... Like Mopic or LaGross and so on... And remember Tru, That guy would bend over back words to get what you needed and at the best price... Bless his Pimping days! lol
So to the guys that are impaiceant.... Give the seller a brake! There, there for you!

[PaCHeKo!]

As long as there is good communication between me and the seller...

I would not trust 007Airsoft for this reason.

You run a business, you must take care of your clients and of your own business... if not, maybe this isn't for you : you better close it down.

[Barrett_M107]

Originally Posted by PaCHeKo!

As long as there is good communication between me and the seller...

I would not trust 007Airsoft for this reason.

You run a business, you must take care of your clients and of your own business... if not, maybe this isn't for you : you better close it down.

Maybe you should re-read the first post.
These are not "businesses" like they used to be. Ken has been around for a long time but don't think his operation hasn't changed to reflect the new reality being discussed here.
You are free to deal with anyone you like, but make sure your expectations are realistic.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Between communication and hand holding.

the way some people behave its like their life savings are tied up in the gun they just ordered.

Order it pay for it, wait for it.

I suspect one of the reasons A&A got out of the biz was due to the 200 e-mails and calls a day from people who ordered a gun and the next day started with the

"is it in yet? how bout now? what about now? .... ok I'll wait ... um what about now? hey why are you ignoring me? hey.. I paid you a tiny insignificant amount of money.. you should be treating me like I'm your only customer. Hey hey... oh... ok its not in yet.. ok... um what about now? .. is it in now? how bout now? hey you're ignoring me again... ok thats it.. now I'm pissed off.. you are a bad business man.. I will never deal with you again... oh... hey here is my gun...WOW i'm so happy... thats great.. can I buy another one?"

I know I would not have 5 minutes to waste on such idiots.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

In my opinion, people are way too quick to air their greivances in public.

Posting on here is the equivelant of taking out a full page ad in the local newspaper calling a particular retailer a crook and a cheat.

I don't know all the issues.. but I do know that by and large Mopic has made good on the transactions in question.

You can't take back what you say. Its posted, public and stays public for all to see. Which is very different than a phone call.. or a face to face meeting where issues can be resolved between the partys and frustration stated and then as every spoken word.. becomes just air.

[Brit ter]

"Carry on " all of you!

[mcguyver]

Sorry, but I saw things from the "inside" for 2 solid years. I paid invoice cost for guns, which not as low as you might think. I didn't pay a portion of the freight, nor brokerage, nor tax either.

I know how much these things cost when they land at your "retailer's" door.

And I wouldn't do it for $50-$100 per gun (on the bigger stuff, not the clone junk).

[Scarecrow]

We need the retailers or this sport is going to evaporate. Considering the risks, I don't begrudge them the profit. You're risking the wrath of the CBSA and your business. I could import AEGs and PTWs as well; I know where they come from and how they arrive, but is it worth the risk to me? Nope. Thank goodness there are those who do it - for our sake. Then there is warrantying an item that you essentially have zero possibility of returning to a manufacturer, so the retailer takes on that liability as well.

I buy used, in country from reputable members who I know and who I have recourse with.. Airsoft guns are like cars, you drive them off the lot, take 25% off what you just paid. I also wait until someone has a firesale and needs instant cash (transmission busted, mortgage payment overdue, sex change operation) and drive a good deal.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by m102404

1. Guys were bitching and moaning about being over charged for a TM/CA AEG (e.g. $600-800), but don't blink and actually praise the $350-ish price point for clones. Clones cost $70 overseas, you're paying 5 times the price and loving it. The price for a TM/CA was 2-2.5-3 times the price. People will gladly pay 5x the price for a "crappier" AEG...weird.

Yea, +1 to that. I remember a thread a while back where someone did a price comparison of the, er, "markup" of certain Chinasoft vs. 'brand name' AEGs. I think for the JLS FN2000 it was about 7x (700%), whereas a Classic Army gun (can't remember the model, it was an Armashite of some sort) was like 1.9x (190%). Yea, the China guns are cheaper, but comparitively you pay more for them.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

I buy used, in country from reputable members who I know and who I have recourse with.

I do this as well. It's face to face mainly for me, less risk.

I've not had a bad experience buying via internet luckily.

I have bought and sold an AEG for the exact same price after I had a great year of playing out of it.

I've also sold nice stuff for cheap, because when I put it ($) out there freely I seem to get it back tenfold.

Though I regretted selling Manchovie My 33E for a great price when he paid me in loonies and twoonies the fucker.

[Dracheous]

I've never been too impatient to wait, sure it sucks, but when ya get it you just don't feel so bad for hugging, stroking and loving the thing. My beef has always been with the costs and how sometimes they make no sense; and I have looked into importation and the licensing. And sometimes it just never makes any damn sense.

IE. a PTW here costs $2400, but only $1600 in the states. Thats an $800 increase that I can't seem to allocate entirely ALL of which where its going. I mean, the State retailer who gets this stuff in bulk will have paid his import taxes and shipping costs already, and yes both can be different. But Lets say its 5% difference on import taxes, thats still only $80 more. Say it costs another $20-40 in shipping thats $120. Now I've found different costs on the importation license, some reports have said $5,000 some have said $10,000. At $10,000 say guy sells 100 guns per year, AEG, GBB, BA, what ever it is. Its only $100 per unit if you flat rate it ((would make selling springers hard if you did that)) So there's $220, whered the other $580 come from?

Another point is, when I inquired about ordering a Tanaka M700 A.I.C.S. ((Only gotten one reply so far)), and the cost is $1050. Now the same gun in the States you can get for $500, but thats all I see as confusion for this rifles cost price. It would start at $435 in HK from Redwolf. Cost to ship it here by itself, $46.96. Taxes, well I don't have the EXACT import percentage, but I'm told its basically GST, fine, we'll do 10% to keep math light and make sure its more than enough. $43.50. So there's roughly $100 in shipping/taxes, and say agian $100 for the import license. That's $200 on the one gun.

Here's another thing that gets me, why is the PTW, probably the most expensive gun that swims in the Canadian airsoft market not taxed so much?

For instance, that M700 starts at $435, with tax, shipping, and everything else added on is $1050, meaning a total $615 extra funds. Litterally the shipping and tax + profit is GREATER than that of the gun starting from a retailer in HK. Where as the PTW CQBR Max starts at $1455 and here costs $2400 or more, being $945 increase. Why if all things equal is the taxation and shipping costs greater than that of the gun for the AICS than the PTW? It can't cost more to ship the PTW CQR Max which ways 1kilo less in the gun alone. I did try to get a shipping quote through Redwolf as well to compare, but shipping is free on all PTW's there, hmm or just not charged.


Again, I'm not out to bash any of the retailers individually, its just frustrating when you see inconsistencies in pricing and costs. From some of the people that bring in the guns, costs are great and not too big to wolf down, but some are just too outrageous and all that means is I don't buy from them; simple as that. As for waiting, thats never been an issue, unless communication on it sucks, then its a big negative on that.

As for people saying its not a business, it still is, perhaps not an official business since that can venture into a lot of legalities, but it is still your person business when you are buying and selling items, be it for personal or professional ends. IE. you walk into the grocery to buy a bottle of coke, you're conducting business, in Canada we have different sense of retail than other parts of the world, but I can tell you right now there are places where you CAN barter the cost of a coke! And the retailer will LOVE you for doing it.

I'm happy to see more paws in the jar for getting guns into the sport lately, and hope to see more. And before anyone gets to crazy on me, I don't want to see some guns going for next to nothing either, one of my biggest dislikes for JG is that they were TOO cheap. Because of that they'd let more people who may not be mentally there for this game into the door. When it takes some time, patience and will to save up a few hundred dollars for the gun and then more money for the gear it tends to weed out some of the sort that airsoft doesn't want/need to see. This has been another rambling of

- Dracheous

[Torque]

Dont retailers need a business license to operate their websites??? yeah its great that they do this but if you say you gonna do something then do it or just stay quiet and not do it. you cant go out a promise a service then not deliver. I donno that my 2 cents after my dealings with A&A. oh well time to enjoy 420 day.

[mcguyver]

PTWs are about $1800 now. And they are made in Japan, so tariffs are going to be less than if it's made in Taiwan or China.

Way back when, I remember an ICS M4 coming from AE in the U.S. costing about $300 Canadian with exchange. Then came 7% GST, and 7% brokerage, then $20 per gun shipping. That came to $362. Next came the big one, duty. For Taiwan, it was 30%. So add on $90 more for a grand total of $452. These guns sold for $600 retail, and I remember a Christmas special where they were $499 with a battery. The RIS/C-15 cost $375 + the extras, and it sold for $700 retail, or $599 at Christmas without a battery.

KSC Glock 19 used to cost $187 to get it to the door, and they used to sell for $299 full retail, but $249 was more the norm in those days (2004-2005).

This is before all the costs of getting a license, having a storefront with security and a vault of some form (required by law for the "license"). No licenseholder can work out of the house, you must be an established "brick and mortar" business. This costs money, a ton of money, money that you don't get back from making $50-$100 per gun, I can tell you that for sure.

Why do you think we have clones in Canada? Because the public wanted them? Not even close. How about return on investment. The clone that costs you $300 costs the dealer at most $150. That's why. The older, established brands never had anywhere close to that margin, that's why dealers don't have them.

[Dracheous]

Perhaps Mcguyver, but why the excessive price gouge on every day guns then?

Why is a TM M4 nearly 150% increase in price to the door and the PTW ((if at your $1600 price)) only a 25% increase? That's a huge difference and in my eye is the only bullshit with retailers in recent years. Not waiting, or having trouble contacting people because thats all small things that people just have to accept that is the way the world just works. If should say that PTW are not paying as much as others are for importation than those that import TM and the like I call shinnanigans, because fewer PTWs are typically sold than TM's if both had the same availability. Simply because more people can afford $500 over $1800. If retailers sold guns at the better costs they'd sell much faster, I remember what ASCA had a shipment come in and with in two weeks "out of stocks" were EVERYWHERE again. And their prices were very decent.