Interview with an OPP Officer

quikstrike · April 24th, 2006, 20:44

TRANSPORTATION OF REPLICA FIREARMS

13. An individual may transport a replica firearm only if

(a) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and

(b) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the replica firearm, is securely locked.

---

So if you got a trunk, and can fit it in there with a case and succesfully lock the trunk, there yah go.

If not it can go in your back seat, but must be out of the eyes from anyone outside of the vehicle and anyone inside of the vehicle. So in a gun case, preferrably locked case. And even toss a blanket over for extra precausion.

Plus if it's going to be left in the car, make sure you lock your doors. But I dont see why anyone would leave an airsoft gun in their car. Just sets the grounds for something really bad happening, and robbery.

willy · April 24th, 2006, 21:54

its happend befor

Dale Man · April 25th, 2006, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotech

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaff

If she uses a pistol smaller than the regular issue, it would be the P239. Did she say how many mags she carries? The 239 is a single stack so if she has more than three mags, it's the 239.

I cannot forsee myself ever installing a trigger lock on my airsoft guns. It's not required, useless (I've heard of them being disabled in seconds), and unneccessary. Since it cannot be used to kill someone, I think locking the trigger is overkill. The gun is useless without a battery, so keeping that seperate from the gun is good enough for me.

I work for the OPP (civilian) and have gotten a few officers into airsoft. The thing that worries me is that very few had ever heard of it before. "So it's a lot like paintball?" is the answer I usually get. "Yeah...kinda" is my defeated reply. One problem I see is that the police usually only have negative experiences with airsoft. i.e. some jerk waving it in public.

You'll find that most of them think it's cool.

It could have been the P239 as she said she carried extra mags because her gun only held around 7 bullets. I don't have enough guards for all my guns and I know it is not the law but feel better having one on when showing the pistol to her. I don't mind going a bit overboard on safety. I also re read my first post to see why it got off track and the only problem line was "She also said that went she pulls over people and can see a trigger guard key on their car key chain; she also starts the process of searching for weapons and becoming alert to the fact that you have a gun." So to put it better. When this Officer pulls someone over, she looks at you and everything around you to make sure everything looks OK. If she sees a gun lock key she keeps in the back of her mind that you have access to some sort of weapon. Like a good cop who wants to go home, she will search with her eyes for any sign of weapons in view inside your car. She may even look a bit harder knowing you have access to a gun. She will not open the trunk or rip the seats out or pull her gun and order you to the floor. I hope this clears things up.

At the end of the evening, this OPP Officer knew what Airsoft was and had seen both a pistol and a MP5K. She now understands what Airsoft is and who plays it. I was very happy to educate an OPP Officer on what Airsoft is and present it in a light so that she did not have any problem with it. She was understanding and professional. I hope that the next Police Officer I talk to is as great.

Now let's get together and shoot each other! :salute:

Lotech... you can't catch a break in this place man. The problem being that many users are quick to jump the gun.

Read the post. The first one made perfect sense.

I like the story, and good for you for posting it to reinforce the point of safe handling etc. If there were more things I could do to store and transport my stuff that would make it even more secure.. I would do it. Go above and beyond at all times.

Cheers all.

JEC18159 · July 13th, 2006, 16:54

Hey guys. Just to clarify... Standard patrol sidearm of the OPP is the Sig Sauer P229 .40 calibre. I just finished my annual requalification. Been a uniformed auxiliary constable for just over 3 years. It's a fantastic pistol. Nice and solid.

Oh... and as far as traffic stops and calls involving airsoft guns. You definitely gotta be careful. Treat it as a real firearm at all times and you'll be fine. These things do NOT belong in the hands of minors unless supervised by adults. There that's my two cents

CDN_Stalker · July 13th, 2006, 17:28

Nuff said.

Armedsask · August 5th, 2006, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotech

It will not make a difference what the gun is when the cop looks in your car and sees a gun. You will be handcuffed and a gun pointed at you until the Officer finds out about the gun and even then they may still write you up for improper storage.

It was a great post and I was enjoying it until I read this. Having a gun in a vehicle is by no means reason to draw your firearm, let alone handcuff some one. I realise she is a member of the jackbooted OPP but a gun alone is not enough reason to do anything if the firearm is in legal possesion. I've been stopped a few times with firearms in the seat next to me.

It is not my intention to flame but I find it humorous that you trigger lock your airsofts. I don't even trigger lock my real non-restricted firearms, or case them for that matter, as it is not required by law.

Also, you can not be charged with improper storage EVER when a gun and a vehicle is involved. It's transportation. /nitpicking

Scarecrow · August 6th, 2006, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armedsask

I realise she is a member of the jackbooted OPP but a gun alone is not enough reason to do anything if the firearm is in legal possesion. I've been stopped a few times with firearms in the seat next to me.

I don't even trigger lock my real non-restricted firearms, or case them for that matter, as it is not required by law.

Also, you can not be charged with improper storage EVER when a gun and a vehicle is involved. It's transportation. /nitpicking

Well, I don't agree with that characterization of the OPP. Its a good force with a lot of good people and shouldn't be painted like that.

Yeah, trigger locking an airsoft gun is going overboard. From a safety point of view, pull the battery and the thing is inert. But a trigger lock on an airsoft gun is a waste of time.

I don't think you can be charged with improper storage in the case of an airsoft gun, its not subject to firearms storage laws - the only time airsoft is the focus of a firearms charge is if it is used in the commission of a crime. Anything used as a firearm in the commission of a crime is subject to firearms charges.

Dracheous · August 6th, 2006, 21:58

Lot easier to tell the officer its a fake/toy gun in the gun case rather than take a bullet cause there was an AK lying on the back seat. Lock it up.

As for Trigger-locks, although useless it doesn't hurt you or your wallet to install them. They're what $8 a peice?! You spend a crap load more on other stuff why not this? And yes they are pretty useless, if you take a standard screwdriver, you can twist them apart. Or just tap it with a finishing hammer. The idea behind a trigger lock is to secure the weapon from firing. Because there is a big block of metal there that can't move much, the trigger can not be pulled, should there be a round in the chamber. But why anyone would transport their rifle loaded... well I shouldn't wonder I've seen people do it before, needles too say he doesn't hunt with us anymore, ever. ((The dumb ass kid went through 2 and a half boxes of rounds! Thats 50 rounds! and only hit ONE deer, used two guns to do it...))

What bothers me more than anything are people who transport their airsoft rifles with their mags already filled. Get a decent BB loader and do it at the feild and for got sakes remove the battery too.

Really all these "Its useless" "waste of time" and "Needless" arguement is quite silly. Its the law to lock up the real stuff, how is it going to hurt you to do the same? Its not, in fact if anything it'll help protect you from getting that .40 caliber round in your ass!

Lisa · August 6th, 2006, 23:22

Nutty hunter, your post disappeared (don't know why) but i'll answer your question anyways. law and common sense don't always meet. A trigger lock meets the letter of the law for securing a lever action rifle. Is it really secure? nope, just work the action and the lock comes off. But putting a cable lock (key lock not a combo) through the breach is the better way to store it as it prevents the gun from being used unlike a trigger lock would. That's how we stored lever actions.

Another letter of the law and commen sense is storage of hand guns. If you take a plastic tackle box that can be and put a screw through the bottom of it into an immovable object such as a floor or a pole in your house it meets the letter of the law for storage of hand guns. The fact you can smash it open with a hammer in fairly short order is inconsequential.

How do I know these things? When katey died the OPP were on site, the storage of our real steal guns were fine (well until katey died because I don't have a PAL) but they had to look up the storage requirements for the airsoft as we don't have enough cases for them and some were just stacked in the corner of the bedroom. The weapons expert came back to me and told me there were no regulations in the storage of the airsoft and while it wouldn't be smart or recommended we could display them in our front hall where anyone could see with no locks or preventive measures if we wanted.

DragonHawk · August 6th, 2006, 23:34

Lisa, did you get the impression that the assessment of whether or not your 'storage arrangements' (stacked in corner) was based on the discretion of the expert or officer involved? I'd just hate to have people (say in extreme cases) hanging all these guns on a wall when an officer in Toronto might assess the situation in a different manner (perhaps based on that officer's specific experience).

Lisa · August 7th, 2006, 00:10

DragonHawk, nope, the weapons specialist had to look up that particular section of the firearms act (which while I don't have memorised word for word, can paraphrase a few key points). He was impressed with my knowledge of the act pertaining to airsoft. The officers were also impressed with the realism of the weapons and the sheer number we had. Anyways the letter of the law states that storage and handling of real fire arms does not apply to airsoft. Common sense of course strays greatly here. I'd find the exact wording and document for you but my google fu is week and my bookmark is missing...

DragonHawk · August 7th, 2006, 00:14

No worries, just curious to know what the angle actually was. If that is written down somewhere, it can be found when it becomes important. Thanks.

Lisa · August 7th, 2006, 00:25

Dracheous: I see no problem with loading mags before transport as long as they are not transported in the gun. I usually transport mags in my kit box which is a locking rubbermaid and my guns in guncases (also locked). Battery is at least disconnected.
If the thing can still shoot with the mag out, no residual bbs in the gun and the battery disconnected I think a good priest is in order.

Iconix · August 7th, 2006, 19:22

I dont have my Book on me but Non Restricted firearms do not not have to be locked up while in transport, They have to be out of site and if the vehicle is left unattended then the vehicle has to be locked. Correct me if I am wrong?

How ever a Officer is allowed to search your vehicle if you have a pistol case in open view, Reasonable grounds is they are allowed to check ifyou have a ATT for the restricted gun and if you dont have a ATT they can fine you big time. Plus they may ask you to open your trunk to see if you have any other restricted weapons that may need ATT licence. My teacher was telling me this story of this OPP officer that would sit outside Gunclubs and pull people coming out to see if they had their ATT papers, If not he would fine them and I think he siezed the weapon till the owner has proper papers for them. The Opp officer was reported after this one guy felt like he was being harrased everytime this officer pulled him over.If you travel with restriced weapon, you HAVE to have ATT papers.

Best advice I heard someone tell me is tape a clear plastic envelope thing for binders (cant think of the name) to your case and have your manual in there, This is for your pistols anyways but would work for both.

cndzn · August 7th, 2006, 21:44

After everything discussed here wouldnt common sense prevail?

If ever in any doubt, play it safe.

10 out of 10 to Lotech for educating the officer in airsoft and what we use.
Hopefully this will continue with more information being passed on for the benefit of all the airsoft community here in Canada.

I fully believe information is education, so given what Lotech has said and the information he gave to the officer, I hope she feels educated to the point where next time given a set of circumstances, an informed decision can be made.

I grew up with firearms of all sorts. Education was the key. I have neices and nephews, much younger than some airsoft players, that know and treat real steel firearms in the way they deserve. Its really scarey to think I could trust a certain 13 year old with a real weapon than a 17 year old with an airsoft weapon.

Yes I know that is a very general statement, but from my own experiences, the ones that argue about certain laws are the ones who in some cases will go out of their way just to see how far they can push the envelope.

Comon sense and education. My 2 cents worth.

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April 24th, 2006, 20:44	#31
quikstrike Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada	TRANSPORTATION OF REPLICA FIREARMS 13. An individual may transport a replica firearm only if (a) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and (b) when the vehicle in which it is being transported is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the replica firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the replica firearm, is securely locked. --- So if you got a trunk, and can fit it in there with a case and succesfully lock the trunk, there yah go. If not it can go in your back seat, but must be out of the eyes from anyone outside of the vehicle and anyone inside of the vehicle. So in a gun case, preferrably locked case. And even toss a blanket over for extra precausion. Plus if it's going to be left in the car, make sure you lock your doors. But I dont see why anyone would leave an airsoft gun in their car. Just sets the grounds for something really bad happening, and robbery. __________________ FAQ-SEARCH *Ontario Airsoft WWII Reenactors* 101st Easy Company

April 24th, 2006, 21:54	#32
willy Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	its happend befor __________________ Current Gear G36 k http://www.airsoftcanada.com/viewtopic.php?t=31874 buy/sell user rating _____________________________________________ Uh oh... perhaps you didn't notice this but you are fueling everyone's inner compulsive gambler. ASC has combined 2 expensive and addictive elements into the ultimate vice: gambling for airsoft. I'll get some chairs in a circle, put on some coffee, and register the support group; I'll need to get a head start on this epidemic.

July 13th, 2006, 17:28	#35
CDN_Stalker Official ASC Bladesmith Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ont.	Nuff said. __________________ STKR Knives http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/STK...17036668380871

July 13th, 2006, 16:54	#34
JEC18159 Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London, ON	Hey guys. Just to clarify... Standard patrol sidearm of the OPP is the Sig Sauer P229 .40 calibre. I just finished my annual requalification. Been a uniformed auxiliary constable for just over 3 years. It's a fantastic pistol. Nice and solid. Oh... and as far as traffic stops and calls involving airsoft guns. You definitely gotta be careful. Treat it as a real firearm at all times and you'll be fine. These things do NOT belong in the hands of minors unless supervised by adults. There that's my two cents

August 6th, 2006, 21:58	#38
Dracheous Lego Head Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Gatineau, that's right I'm in QUEBEC!	Lot easier to tell the officer its a fake/toy gun in the gun case rather than take a bullet cause there was an AK lying on the back seat. Lock it up. As for Trigger-locks, although useless it doesn't hurt you or your wallet to install them. They're what $8 a peice?! You spend a crap load more on other stuff why not this? And yes they are pretty useless, if you take a standard screwdriver, you can twist them apart. Or just tap it with a finishing hammer. The idea behind a trigger lock is to secure the weapon from firing. Because there is a big block of metal there that can't move much, the trigger can not be pulled, should there be a round in the chamber. But why anyone would transport their rifle loaded... well I shouldn't wonder I've seen people do it before, needles too say he doesn't hunt with us anymore, ever. ((The dumb ass kid went through 2 and a half boxes of rounds! Thats 50 rounds! and only hit ONE deer, used two guns to do it...)) What bothers me more than anything are people who transport their airsoft rifles with their mags already filled. Get a decent BB loader and do it at the feild and for got sakes remove the battery too. Really all these "Its useless" "waste of time" and "Needless" arguement is quite silly. Its the law to lock up the real stuff, how is it going to hurt you to do the same? Its not, in fact if anything it'll help protect you from getting that .40 caliber round in your ass! __________________ _________________________________ "The hydrogen economy car from the people who brought you the 'Hindenburg'" - Glen Foster Condoms do not guarantee safe sex any more. A friend of mine wore one and was shot by the woman's husband!

August 6th, 2006, 23:22	#39
Lisa Looking for form T-whatev Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trenton	Nutty hunter, your post disappeared (don't know why) but i'll answer your question anyways. law and common sense don't always meet. A trigger lock meets the letter of the law for securing a lever action rifle. Is it really secure? nope, just work the action and the lock comes off. But putting a cable lock (key lock not a combo) through the breach is the better way to store it as it prevents the gun from being used unlike a trigger lock would. That's how we stored lever actions. Another letter of the law and commen sense is storage of hand guns. If you take a plastic tackle box that can be and put a screw through the bottom of it into an immovable object such as a floor or a pole in your house it meets the letter of the law for storage of hand guns. The fact you can smash it open with a hammer in fairly short order is inconsequential. How do I know these things? When katey died the OPP were on site, the storage of our real steal guns were fine (well until katey died because I don't have a PAL) but they had to look up the storage requirements for the airsoft as we don't have enough cases for them and some were just stacked in the corner of the bedroom. The weapons expert came back to me and told me there were no regulations in the storage of the airsoft and while it wouldn't be smart or recommended we could display them in our front hall where anyone could see with no locks or preventive measures if we wanted. __________________ May you live in interesting times. ASCMART, your smart choice

August 6th, 2006, 23:34	#40
DragonHawk Hit Me 4 DigiPoints! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario	Lisa, did you get the impression that the assessment of whether or not your 'storage arrangements' (stacked in corner) was based on the discretion of the expert or officer involved? I'd just hate to have people (say in extreme cases) hanging all these guns on a wall when an officer in Toronto might assess the situation in a different manner (perhaps based on that officer's specific experience).

August 7th, 2006, 00:10	#41
Lisa Looking for form T-whatev Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trenton	DragonHawk, nope, the weapons specialist had to look up that particular section of the firearms act (which while I don't have memorised word for word, can paraphrase a few key points). He was impressed with my knowledge of the act pertaining to airsoft. The officers were also impressed with the realism of the weapons and the sheer number we had. Anyways the letter of the law states that storage and handling of real fire arms does not apply to airsoft. Common sense of course strays greatly here. I'd find the exact wording and document for you but my google fu is week and my bookmark is missing... __________________ May you live in interesting times. ASCMART, your smart choice

August 7th, 2006, 00:14	#42
DragonHawk Hit Me 4 DigiPoints! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Guelph, Ontario	No worries, just curious to know what the angle actually was. If that is written down somewhere, it can be found when it becomes important. Thanks.

August 7th, 2006, 00:25	#43
Lisa Looking for form T-whatev Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trenton	Dracheous: I see no problem with loading mags before transport as long as they are not transported in the gun. I usually transport mags in my kit box which is a locking rubbermaid and my guns in guncases (also locked). Battery is at least disconnected. If the thing can still shoot with the mag out, no residual bbs in the gun and the battery disconnected I think a good priest is in order. __________________ May you live in interesting times. ASCMART, your smart choice

August 7th, 2006, 19:22	#44
Iconix Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Kingston Ontario,	I dont have my Book on me but Non Restricted firearms do not not have to be locked up while in transport, They have to be out of site and if the vehicle is left unattended then the vehicle has to be locked. Correct me if I am wrong? How ever a Officer is allowed to search your vehicle if you have a pistol case in open view, Reasonable grounds is they are allowed to check ifyou have a ATT for the restricted gun and if you dont have a ATT they can fine you big time. Plus they may ask you to open your trunk to see if you have any other restricted weapons that may need ATT licence. My teacher was telling me this story of this OPP officer that would sit outside Gunclubs and pull people coming out to see if they had their ATT papers, If not he would fine them and I think he siezed the weapon till the owner has proper papers for them. The Opp officer was reported after this one guy felt like he was being harrased everytime this officer pulled him over.If you travel with restriced weapon, you HAVE to have ATT papers. Best advice I heard someone tell me is tape a clear plastic envelope thing for binders (cant think of the name) to your case and have your manual in there, This is for your pistols anyways but would work for both.

August 7th, 2006, 21:44	#45
cndzn Trader rating Join Date: May 2006 Location: Victoria, BC	After everything discussed here wouldnt common sense prevail? If ever in any doubt, play it safe. 10 out of 10 to Lotech for educating the officer in airsoft and what we use. Hopefully this will continue with more information being passed on for the benefit of all the airsoft community here in Canada. I fully believe information is education, so given what Lotech has said and the information he gave to the officer, I hope she feels educated to the point where next time given a set of circumstances, an informed decision can be made. I grew up with firearms of all sorts. Education was the key. I have neices and nephews, much younger than some airsoft players, that know and treat real steel firearms in the way they deserve. Its really scarey to think I could trust a certain 13 year old with a real weapon than a 17 year old with an airsoft weapon. Yes I know that is a very general statement, but from my own experiences, the ones that argue about certain laws are the ones who in some cases will go out of their way just to see how far they can push the envelope. Comon sense and education. My 2 cents worth.

Interview with an OPP Officer

General