biodegradable bb

[Sha Do]

Originally Posted by eel one

That is true, it was a swedish guy who did a lab test on the different BB's compounds. As far as I remember bioval was the only true bio degradable and the "Excel Bio BBs" was exactly the same product as ordinary Excel BBs.

Edit: Found it:
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filn.../bio_tests.htm

Excellent (good to see that my memory is going yet...), and thanks for posting the link. No doubt many will find it informative.

SHA DO

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by safx

We should be concerned with our wasted bbs, it's just good sense.

BBs aren't wasted if you hit what you shoot at. In otherwords, LEARN HOW TO SHOOT PROPERLY!!!!

I'm one of the few that uses 0.12g BBs quite regularly, as I've said numerous times I buy the red ones and load the first 12-20 rounds per mag (low cap or midcap) with them, then top it off with 0.28g. Gives me the 'tracer' effect, extreme overhop and change in pitch (sound of firing becomes slightly higher pitched, a "Tick, tick, tick" as opposed to the "Tack, tack, tack" sound we're used to) so I know I need to reload without dry firing my gun (V2 mechboxes, on my third one in my MP5SD right now). Been using them for over two years now, works freaking great, and I've gotten a couple unintentional kills with them. How many kills has anyone gotten with dry firing? Lol

[safx]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

Yes, I should do a little reading before advising others, your right about that, and I usually do, but I dont recall giving any advice in this thread at all. I was just putting in my opinion. Like I said, your just nit picking.

Your right, airsoft BBs are going to ruin the world, and destroy the enviroment, not toxic dumping in the ocean, not the depletion of the ozone layer, not clear cutting forests, but the littering of millions apon millions of little tiny plastic BBs is going to destory the world, when you state it with a " matter of fact attitude" like that yeah it does sound pretty bad doesnt it?

Better get your tin foil hats on, we are all doomed!

LOL, bit of an over-reaction don't yah think? Anyway, your taking it too hard, breath.

It's a simple thing, no one said bb polution was going to ruin the already ruined planet.
But it's good sense to be respectful of the property we play on and not think it'll always
be used for our fun little hobby.

[TokyoSeven]

Tin foils hats for all!

You know Im kidding, when am I ever serious. Unless theres cheese cake around...

[eel one]

Now what is wrong with clear cutting, seriously? I might have a colored view on the issue as both a forestry engineer and a MSc in forestry. But come on, it is just a disturbance on a par with a large wind throw or wild fire. As long as the areas are managed and reforested there are no problems.

No the environmental impact of using ordinary BBs are next to non existent (I even have that on writing from the danish ministry of the environment). But as I also wrote previously, the public relation aspect are not to be ignored for the sake of the future of our sport. We need to sent a positive messages to the rest of the world that we are not a bunch of terrorists, like we do take the environment in to account while we put spend ammunition out in the nature.

[Azriel_Strife]

I can vouch that the Wal-Mart bidegradables are quite good. Been thru 4 buckets of 5000 rounds so far and haven't had any break in my JG that shoots 390FPS. I can also confirm that they break down quickly when in contact with moisture, as I too put a few in some water and within a few days they were gone.

They advertize that after opening a bag you have 10 weeks to use them before they become too degraded to use in a gun. It holds true as I have played many games in my field and there are hardly any BB's in our loading area. Some from a week or so ago, but not nearly enough around there to signify being around for more than a month.

These are the only BB's I ever use, they are accurate, don't have any seams and don't pollute my field. I hate walking around my site and seeing nothing but little BB's everywhere. Id' say they are pretty good over all.

[Scarecrow]

Sorry but I part company on biobbs and teh environment. At worst they are an eyesore. They are non-toxic and they do over time break down from UV into their harmless component parts. If animals swallow them they just pass through them. I don't really see a compelling environmental arguement to use them.

Second, in Canada, you pay a premium for them. I've tried to get a good supplier for them and I've had no luck (even though I don't use them I'd be willing to make a buck off them).

Lastly, I spent 3 hours tearing apart a gun where they disintegrated in the feedpath. So, in short, sorry but, my guns will never see another biobb again.

Originally Posted by safx

They aren't biodegradable, but in 500 to 1000 years they can break into dust size granules. We should be concerned with our wasted bbs, it's just good sense.

Bull-fucking-shit. How do I know? 6 years ago we started playing airsoft in Muskoka and in the time, near the cabin we had a major spill off BBs that never got cleaned up. Out of curosity I've checked on it every summer and you know what? The surfaces are pitted and discolored and they are disintegrating. Its taking time but it is happening. I figure at the rate I am seeing them go, they'll be dust in under 30 years.

[safx]

Bull-fucking-shit. How do I know? 6 years ago we started playing airsoft in Muskoka and in the time, near the cabin we had a major spill off BBs that never got cleaned up. Out of curosity I've checked on it every summer and you know what? The surfaces are pitted and discolored and they are disintegrating. Its taking time but it is happening. I figure at the rate I am seeing them go, they'll be dust in under 30 years.[/QUOTE]

I would pay more for a good bio alternative so it might just be smart business to add some alternative to your offerings in the near future. Compared to what paintball players pay, we're still laughing. I play
a lot of CQB indoors so I'll still be using your regular bbs.

LOL, well who can argue with that kind strict scientific analysis?
Maybe you piss where you sleep, the soil contains some kind of
plastic krytonite or sand has possibly worn the surface from them
being stepped on. But, if we use 100% plastic bbs they will not
vanish in that time, it's just fact. If the bbs are mixed with other
ingredients like the amaing airsoft metals, then who knows.

Here's the link to the bb test mentioned earlier in the thread
http://www.skirmish.nl/bbtest.php

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by safx

LOL, well who can argue with that kind strict scientific analysis?
Maybe you piss where you sleep, the soil contains some kind of
plastic krytonite or sand has possibly worn the surface from them
being stepped on. But, if we use 100% plastic bbs they will not
vanish in that time, it's just fact. If the bbs are mixed with other
ingredients like the amaing airsoft metals, then who knows.

Here's the link to the bb test mentioned earlier in the thread
http://www.skirmish.nl/bbtest.php

No, its not a scientific test, its a PRACTICAL test, and you can't argue with its results. And by the way those are 8mm BBs I am watching, not even 6mm, so they have a lot longer to go.

You put out way more toxins into the environment just driving to work or consuming plastic wrapped consumer products that you then put into the waste stream. People that are that concerned about a ~.25gr bb of ABS plastic with possible zinc powder (neither of which is toxic or breaks down into a toxic byproduct) in it should also be driving electric cars, have solar panels on their roof and eat granola made from electricity generated from a renewable source. Seriously, if you're going green, there are a lot worse things you're doing on a daily basis that are way more harmful that you should be doing something about. Just the byproducts of the manufacturing process of NiCAD and NiMH batteries is horrible - then there is their disposal which is another problem all together. So nobody is lily white who plays airsoft except those with hamster powered AEGs. I tried that... Clay kept eating my hamsters.

The only thing I agree with its that they are an eyesore, but, thats a good reason not to play airsoft on the Bruce Trail. Other than that, containing your play to locales which you reuse and maintain ensures you're not sowing the land far and wide with BBs.

[m102404]

Wow...everyone's got their BALLS in an uproar...(haha..get it.."balls"...)!!!

I'd be in for bio-bbs if they were competitively priced and readily available. Personally, I think that it'll only happen if the field owner demands it (i.e. drives up the demand/requirement so that a vendor steps up to supply that need). Anyways, there's more environmental damage done by tromping through the bush than leaving bits of plastic behind. I'd think that if we're not going to pick them up (I don't even pick them up at home... ), the more inert they are, the better. If it turns out that BBbastard's stuff has trace amounts of arsenic/lead/etc.. in them, my wife's going to have a kitten and narc out the whole lot of us.

So far as them shattering, etc...and getting under goggles...sorry to be crass, but get f*cking goggles that seal properly. If his goggles sealed properly then how did fragments get under them? If fragments/dust got under them (I know it happened, I was there)...what would have an intact BB done?!? It's up to each player to make sure that their kit works properly, and in regards to goggles that would apply to paintball goggles and whatever other alternatives. If you want to be uber-fashionable and your eyewear doesn't seal well...well who's to f*cking blame for that?!?

If I told my wife that I needed to spend $1200 on bio-bbs, she'd be all for it!!!

...but I'd buy a CA 249 para instead...and can you picture the amount of plastic I'd leave behind using that!!!

***need more coffee...***

[CDN_Stalker]

If yo uare referring to Foxtail getting hit, his goggles were sealed better than most paintball goggles do (which is pretty common, PB goggles aren't even 90% sealed), is just that his nose got plowed with dust and fragments when the BB fractured on the bottom edge of the lense.

[eel one]

Scarecrow, we all know that the environmental impact of BBs in the wild are do no harm. But please do see it in a wider perspective. Other users of the same areas see that is left behind from a skirmish and they do see it as a problem. This means that it will become a problem if you do not have a quick reply to them that the BBs are biodegradable. Embarking on a quest to persuade them that styrene based BBs are not a problem is going to be difficult if not impossible. So like it or not, spreading plastic poses a problem, even that there is no real tread to the nature. It is very much likely that the power source we use is a bigger issue, but the public do net see this ant have no knowledge of this, all they can see is that we leave used BBs laying around and interprets this as negative for the environment. The general view on airsoft is bad enough as it is, there are no need to feed those who are against airsoft, with arguments for a total ban. The arguments might not be scientifically accurate, but that have no importance to the public as you and the rest of the airsoft community most likely won't be able to get through with you arguments, even if they are scientifically based.

I am sorry to hear of your experiences with bio BBs, but don't blame the fact that they are bio BBs, blame the fact that they are of poor quality. A styrene based BB stored in direct sunlight will do the same.

[m102404]

Yup, that's the instance I was referring to because it was referred to in a previous post (loosely though, I was using it as a generalization for those who say that bio-bbs are worse than "regular" bbs so far as crap getting into the eyes).

My understanding was that the dust/bits/parts got ricocheted up into his eye...and that's why the game was shutdown for the half hour, or however long (long enough for 2 smokes and a snack). I hope it was more serious than dust/bits on his nose...I took a more than a few face/head shots that day.

My goggles seal well...I've got the asian-no-nose-bridge syndrome and ended going with a set of PB goggles that fit best (tried on about 7 pairs...I think the badlands guy was pretty pissed that he'd have to pack the other 6 back up...LOL). But those are mine...on my face. I'd stand behind the comment that it's up to the individual to make sure that their kit works properly.

Don't want to trigger a debate as to what happened at the BW game...dis-regard my previous post if I have it completely wrong...or my post has no value (99.999% probable).

Tys

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by m102404

My goggles seal well...I've got the asian-no-nose-bridge syndrome and ended going with a set of PB goggles that fit best

Lucky you, I got a somewhat large MacDonald nose and I've tried quite a few times of PB goggles and always I can stick a pinky into the goggles along side my nose. And since PB goggles tend to allow use with glasses, they have that opening in the rear, which was part of my 'lack of sealing' comment.

I think maybe Foxtail might have gotten a bit of dust in his goggles, don't remember, but the game wasn't shut down for long that I recall, seeing as how it wasn't anything serious (Testtube was the one who told me......... in a panic..,, sounded pretty serious, broken goggles and hit in the eye, so I went for Fox who was about 40ft behind and all he said was just the dust irritated his nose and I recall a whiff of dust in alongside his nose into the eye. There's a tiny little gap on his face with those goggles, enought to shove a toothpick into, so I think that's how it got in.

[safx]

I hear and won't argue your points Scarecrow,
but all I can do is make little choices to help do
my part, even if it is just cutting down on bb waste.
Sad to hear they're 8mm's too, they cost me a
fortune so I use them sparingly.

I don't have a car, I don't buy bottled water—
I use a Brita filter, and my beer bottles get reused

m102404, lol. Any paintball mask or pair goggles
I've seen have vent holes around the outside. So
I'm sure if we used shitty bio's at TAC the shards
bouncing off the panels would eventually get
through in a bad way.