The "e" bullying on ASC is going to stop.

[Scooby Steve]

Originally Posted by Pip

Woah, i don't log in for a couple of days and whats this? Anyone want to PM me with details? So out of the loop.

It appears to be the result of the "banned people" thread.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by zapplez

There is still a lot of problems in authority with the forum , when you have well respected members of the community that actually show up to games all the time that are banned. Ie CLAY!

I probally be banned, edited or deleted for saying this.

You're quick to forget that a great person on the field does not equate to a forum-friendly personality. Maybe things come across differently without the personality behind the text?

Whatever the case is, Clay has always had a disruptive forum personality, and despite the multiple bannings, has continued to keep it up. He tends to learn to tone it down for a short while after a banning, (despite forum rules disallowing the return of a banned person under a new account.) We've always let it stick around till he starts to get out of line again, which he eventually does.

Honestly, we'd all love to be able to keep all our field friends on the board - but keep in mind, that being a national board, you won't ever see over 80% of the board's population, and as such, they won't know how great of a guy you are and the personality behind snarky online comments. The things that are said can (and will) be taken out of context. Even with smilies and smirks behind each smartass comment, some people still can't sense sarcasm behind what's said. And beyond that, some people are just aggro - gotta face the reality that some people just have harsher personalities than others - which can result in an online environment that just isn't "friendly" for the rest of the users who won't get to know how great of a person you may really be on the field.

After all, the last time I issued a 1 point expiring infraction to Clay, a stink was raised about how moderators were slow in issuing infractions to other users who were disruptive. So now the rule goes across the board.


"Problems with authority"? You're right - it's a lack of respect for our decisions and a compelling urge and need for certain members to always challenge those who run the board.

[Molson]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

You're quick to forget that a great person on the field does not equate to a forum-friendly personality. Maybe things come across differently without the personality behind the text?

That is exactly what it is. You don't get tone of voice when reading.

Whatever the case is, Clay has always had a disruptive forum personality, and despite the multiple bannings, has continued to keep it up. He tends to learn to tone it down for a short while after a banning, but after a while, the same attitude comes out again in another new account.

Sure he may have a disruptive personality on here. But he isn't here to disrupt the forum, he will say it as he sees it. And always stands behinds what he says. Will most who never meet Clay think he's an asshole just from reading what he posts? Probably. But they would be wrong, he would say the same to your face and it would be in a totally different context. Clay just bashes his fingers on the keyboard as fast as he can to get out what he wants in the least amount of words, and it works. Sure it may be rough around the edges, but people need to stop taking shit so personally when they read it in a forum.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Molson

That is exactly what it is. You don't get tone of voice when reading.


Sure he may have a disruptive personality on here. But he isn't here to disrupt the forum, he will say it as he sees it. And always stands behinds what he says. Will most who never meet Clay think he's an asshole just from reading what he posts? Probably. But they would be wrong, he would say the same to your face and it would be in a totally different context. Clay just bashes his fingers on the keyboard as fast as he can to get out what he wants in the least amount of words, and it works. Sure it may be rough around the edges, but people need to stop taking shit so personally when they read it in a forum.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I totally understand what you're saying, and I know he's not out to purposely stir up shit on the board, but ultimately... he does. And there is a greater than average number of offended readers of Clay's posts.

So you chalk it up:
a) Too many sensitive readers?
or
b) One guy being too rough around the edges?

Ultimately, I've never had problems with Clay in person and feel he's an upstanding player. Sure, as a guy who says what he feels needs to be said and being able to stand behind it, that shows integrity and faith behind what he does - but that's also what gets him into hot water.

The underlying message that he wants to get across may be there - it's just his method of delivery that is hard to swallow.

[Cortexburn]

I seem to recall Clay being removed due to Miles being sick of his finger pointing ( at Miles ) and as Miles is at the head of the ladder and ASC is his boat to float.....talking negatively to the guy that owns the boards isn't a good thing, kinda like spitting in the face of the guy that owns the airsoft field you play at.

Private forums are ran in a different way then public ones.

Misunderstandings are apart of the internet, and if one happens we often get it sorted out through PM's, however....when it's obvious that the person is just being a dink and continues their online posting "habits" they get booted. Easy enough. Treat others with the respect you wish to be treated with, reap what you soe.

[Dr_Tinshnipz]

good thread, I mean like come on people where is the love! haha stick together for our sport.

[Molson]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

So you chalk it up:
a) Too many sensitive readers?
or
b) One guy being too rough around the edges?

I'd say about an equal amount of both.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Molson

I'd say about an equal amount of both.

Okay, so given that response, as an administrator of a site, is it easier to try and correct an individual, or a bunch of individuals (who have no direct affiliation with no each other?)

ie
1) send out a warning/banning to the individual offender to tell him to tone it down or he's out of here

or

2) tell all the offended individuals to "suck it up and don't take it so personally"

Which one lends itself to allowing a friendlier environment for other users to attend?

Personally, if I had to take the insults that Claymore dished out for the infraction I gave him, if a moderator told me to suck it up, I'd tell the moderator there's no way in hell I'm going to just let Claymore insult me JUST BECAUSE he's "a great guy on the field." He resorted to needless name-slinging for that particular offense.

And regarding the most recent cause of his banning, if some other guy was attending a Wolfpack game... or was on your team's forum and got in Rob's face, accusing him of something he felt he was wronged on years ago, you're telling me you and your entire team wouldn't be up in arms? You're telling me Morb wouldn't instantly boot him off the forum or gamesite you guys were on and issue a complete ban on his presence?

[Molson]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Okay, so given that response, as an administrator of a site, is it easier to try and correct an individual, or a bunch of individuals (who have no direct affiliation with no each other?)

ie
1) send out a warning/banning to the individual offender to tell him to tone it down or he's out of here

or

2) tell all the offended individuals to "suck it up and don't take it so personally"

Which one lends itself to allowing a friendlier environment for other users to attend?

Being an adminstrator at 3 rather large forums, I have personally been involved in MANY similar situations. Sure #1 works, but after the "report Post" button gets worn out as people see that if someone offends them, they will get booted if enough complaints come in.

We have taken the #2 route often, and it works. People learned to deal with certain individuals, or put them on an ignore list.

I'm not telling you how to run anything, don't get me wrong, I'm just giving my opinion. Sure I'm on his team and may be a little bias, but I'm also a well experienced user of forums, and it happens everywhere. Its pretty much a part of forum life.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Molson

Being an adminstrator at 3 rather large forums, I have personally been involved in MANY similar situations. Sure #1 works, but after the "report Post" button gets worn out as people see that if someone offends them, they will get booted if enough complaints come in.

We have taken the #2 route often, and it works. People learned to deal with certain individuals, or put them on an ignore list.

I'm not telling you how to run anything, don't get me wrong, I'm just giving my opinion. Sure I'm on his team and may be a little bias, but I'm also a well experienced user of forums, and it happens everywhere. Its pretty much a part of forum life.

Well... #2 isn't fair for the majority of users. If we go that route, we might as well just bring Greylocks back and tell all the whiners about his attitude to "suck it up and just ignore him if you don't like it."

Also, the "report post" function was put in to use well after Clay's first several bannings... this isn't a new issue.

[Molson]

Yep, that what I did. I just ignored him. Sure he was annoying, but wasn't attacking anyone personally, it turned into a broken record. Whenever a obvious newb thread was posted, 99% of people who have been here longer than a week would HAVE to know what Grey was going to post, so it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

[Denis[teamplayer]]

Originally Posted by Molson

Yep, that what I did. I just ignored him. Sure he was annoying, but wasn't attacking anyone personally, it turned into a broken record. Whenever a obvious newb thread was posted, 99% of people who have been here longer than a week would HAVE to know what Grey was going to post, so it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

Greylocks said "research you f***ing noobs" for us, I want him back. Seems like once he was gone, a whole bunch of threads were created where googling was the solution. How did they find this site anyway?..We can't help people that don't bother helping themselves. They're just lazy bums.

Mods keep it up, be stricter, even.
Good luck with your custody battle Freedom Fighter.


Cheers

[Amazing KG3]

I guess you have to be a mod to get this, i havent really noticed much. Im glad your all here, and havent had a problem with any of you. In fact i got an infraction awhile ago-something about my signature having more than one image. I apoligized and ask what i could do to make it better. he was happy to help me and thanked for being a good sport. Mods are just doing there jobs, there not hating anyobdy (i guess thats been covered)

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Freedom Fighter

My fellow moderators have missed one important issue however ... allowing the bullshit to continue actually detracts from the overall enjoyment of this site for all but the few that like to act big and tell people off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with some ribbing and tormenting one another in good spirits, but from what I have seen from a select few is nothing more than belligerent insults made in the interest of giving these few people a feeling of self worth and authority.

I agree, but I think some people are not on the same page about what constitutes bullshit or good natured ribbing. I've personally all but stopped posting because of it. Problem is with an open site like this you have to have an open door policy to be inclusive but as a result a lot of people on different parts of the spectrum are forced into the same space and there is inevitable friction. But there is no excuse for personal attacks, and I've seen everyone guilty of that on more than one occasion, so in my opinion nobody on this site has any moral authority to point the finger at anyone else. There in lies the problem.

Originally Posted by Freedom Fighter

This crack down is not open to debate. Anyone think this is unfair, they can start their own D-board.
Cheers.

Yup. Thats pretty much my solution. And I am the first to say that Wolfpackairsoftcanada.com is a facist and controlled environment where you can be arbitrarily banned based on our team's perspective. I don't expect anyone to support us here on that, but its why I don't get my nuts in a uproar over the moderating over here. When you play in someone's sandbox, its by their rules, not yours. Case in point is the A____u affair which is taboo here but not over there. I understand the logic behind it after speaking with some mods about it, but, it wasn't anything that I didn't think couldn't be presented and understood. What I would recommend is if you're going to make a controversial decision, be prepared to explain it to some degree. Given a reasonable explanation most people will be satisfied and move on. Make it look like a star-chamber decision and you start spawning conspiracy theories amongst those who don't entirely trust your decision making process.

Totalitarianism has its place.

ASC is in the non-unique position that no matter what the mods do, it won't please everyone all of the time. The only advice I can give is be consistent with your application of rules, make no exceptions for in-crowd versus out-crowd people (including mods/owners) and practice what you preach. To do otherwise is to be perceived as being a hypocrite and you end up having no recognized inherent moral authority to act when you need to. The report post button is only as good as the mod who reads the post and acts on it but honestly adults should be able to regulate themselves without intervention. It disappoints me when I see otherwise.

I won't get into the Clay debate, its old, tired and nothing changes with it and because he is my friend I am biased. When I read his posts I hear his voice and understand his point of view, which often gets misinterpreted because most of the time he doesn't kick his posts through a politically-correct non-aggressive filter. Now that he's been stereotyped online, its not going to change, yet people constantly are surprised when they meet him in person that he isn't foaming at the mouth or has got baby's blood on his bib. Same thing when WP members all have the same avatar any thread we collectively take an interest in looks like a gang bang when we're done with it and we end up a pariah for another 3 months until everyone moves onto a new shitstorm.

[ert]

I log in for the first time in a few months and I come back to this...

I have to say I think some people need to take a break from the internet for a while... it's an online community, not a freaking country in the middle of a civil war. Stop taking things so seriously and personally and realize that there's more to life then your online persona. It's a forum. It can be run however the people who are in charge want it to be run. If you don't like it, feel free to voice your opinion (because otherwise nothing would even have the possibility of changing) and if things still don't change, then leave.

I cannot believe how seriously some people are taking this. It borders on obsessive almost...