systema vs guarder clear: hop up

[Amos]

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

Actually, indoor shooting for groups plays an important role in long range applications, because if you can only get a 2" group at 30ft, the old Japanese proverb 'small things become big things'; a 1/2" group at 30ft will have a better chance of being more accurate and consistant at 100ft than one that shoots 2" at 30ft. See where I'm going? I'm not saying that a gun that shoots 1/2" groups at 30ft is able to do consistant head shot groups at 200ft at all, I know that's bs because of two things: 1/ The unstable lightweight ammo we use; and 2/ the variable medium we shoot through.

I know I know, I'm not talking about shooter skill here, I'm actually a pretty bad shot to be honest lol

The comparison I was making was determining if an outdoor gun will be good because it can get tight grouping at 40 feet lol

If I had a Bipod and a stable shooting platform it would be a better test ("1337" upgraded rifle v.s. upgraded rifle in desperate need of maintenance), but I don't use those things when I'm using my rifle... small trees and branches are my Bipod and my shooting platform lol

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by Amos

I know I know, I'm not talking about shooter skill here, I'm actually a pretty bad shot to be honest lol

The comparison I was making was determining if an outdoor gun will be good because it can get tight grouping at 40 feet lol

Ya, I know, just added my $0.02 worth anyways. My rifles tend to shoot pretty tight groups at 30ft often, but there are still occasional flyers. But I can't and won't ever say I can get consistant headshots at 200ft. 100-150ft, sure, as long as I know the drop amount of the round I'm using, and the conditions aren't too nasty. But indoors, even at short ranges, is a great way to check the consistancy of a gun, and also to set one's scope.

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

But indoors, even at short ranges, is a great way to check the consistancy of a gun, and also to set one's scope.

thank you, that's what I've been trying to say all this time.

[Shredder]

Greetings everyone.

With regards to the topic "Systema vs Guarder Clear", I personally would recommend the Systema over the Guarder clear bucking because of its softness and durability.

Most of us here use the Systema soft type bucking with setups reaching up to 530 fps without having problems. Guarder clear on the other hand is a nice bucking but durability wise, it cannot compare to a Systema.

A common mistake I always encounter at forums is using a hard type bucking used for setups with only 400 fps and in reality, hard type buckings should be used for over 500+ fps setups.

So that everyone may know, hard type buckings are only good for its air sealing capability since the lip of the bucking doesn't expand that much compared to the soft type buckings.

With regards to accuracy tests, 30 feet is irrelevant since it is too near and the hop-up has no effect at that range. I would suggest that tests should be done starting at 50 feet and up.

I have lots of accuracy test videos at youtube under the name of rickybh and most of them were done using stock barrels, stock bucking, stock internals and only an SCS is installed.

If you have any questions, please visit my site at http://shredderscs.proboards.com/index.cgi? or probably a stickied thread pertaining to hop-up problems here at ASC.

Thanks very much and Happy Holidays!

Ricky

[Amos]

Most of the AEG set-ups in Canada are limited to 400 FPS if you're firing full auto -- For Canadian application, I find that the guarder clear is superior to the systema (My own personal testing) But -- To each their own.

[Shredder]

400 fps is quite ok already. Our setups here go way beyond 500+ and full-auto can be used which is very very painful.

Regarding the bucking, I was basing my answer based on my personal experiences and from all the inputs that were provided to me as well as posts coming from forums all around.

The more inputs we gather, the better.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

thank you, that's what I've been trying to say all this time.

Not to thread jack here, but at what distance do you recommend Zero'ing your Scope for?

[Shredder]

Originally Posted by Steven

Not to thread jack here, but at what distance do you recommend Zero'ing your Scope for?

It depends... I zero my scopes at a minimum of 120 feet.

[Steven]

Depends on what? :P

If it means anything, it will be Full PDI internals Firing at around 450 FPS.

[Shredder]

If you play CQB, zero the scope at 50-75 feet or 100 feet up if you play on the field.

What do you mean by Full PDI internals?

[Steven]

Ah, alright. As in Hop-up, Barrel, Cylinder Set, Trigger. Everything internal will be PDI.

[Shredder]

For VSR's PDI parts are nice but the PDI hop chamber doesn't provide good results considering that it uses a rubber "noodle" like nub inside.

[marcwhite]

Originally Posted by Shredder

For VSR's PDI parts are nice but the PDI hop chamber doesn't provide good results considering that it uses a rubber "noodle" like nub inside.

Thats why you buy an SCS.

[MadMax]

TM stock vinyl hop ups are the most consistent performing hop ups hands down. I find that SystemAs are a moderate second. Both are vinyl based parts (I think it's vinyl anyways, it's definitely not silicone) and appear to be compatible with silicone oils.

Guarder clear and black hop up sleeves are silicone rubber which exhibits nearly the worst abrasion resistance of commercially available elastomers. Silicone rubber is also not compatible with silicone oils because they absorb silicone oils and bloat. They also become softer and even more prone to abrasion.

Guarder black sleeves used to be vinyl based so they were my aftermarket go to favorite, but some years ago, they switched to silicone so I dropped them from my inventory (ASCA days).

I do find that SystemA and TM sleeves are not very tolerant to many other makes of hop up assemblies. I try to use SystemA or TM sleeves only with TM or SystemA hop up assemblies because other aftermarket makers haven't really gotten around to checking their calipers against gauge blocks.

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by Shredder

Greetings everyone.
With regards to the topic "Systema vs Guarder Clear", I personally would recommend the Systema over the Guarder clear bucking because of its softness and durability.
Ricky

Originally Posted by MadMax

TM stock vinyl hop ups are the most consistent performing hop ups hands down. I find that SystemAs are a moderate second. Both are vinyl based parts (I think it's vinyl anyways, it's definitely not silicone) and appear to be compatible with silicone oils.

oh god, you guys make me feel so warm and fuzzy inside.

Originally Posted by Steven

Depends on what? :P

If it means anything, it will be Full PDI internals Firing at around 450 FPS.

For Panther, I'd say 150~200feet, do it on the field every game. Wind/humidity, etc etc can vary the trajectory slightly on different days.