WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

[kar120c]

Have you polished only the bar or also the part of the trigger chassis where the bar moves?
QUOTE=MikeMcNair;1866413]due to the fact that i focus almost everything airsoft on the TM/KJW G26/27 i am VERY well versed with just about every issue that could occur in these pistols.

that being said, the lubrication in that region is absolutely paramount, and can be applied excessively with a silicone spray (or SuperLube, etc) and wiped clean once done. this really does make a difference.

also, if you haven't already, polish the outer most portion of the trigger relay bar (when looking from atop the gun, the RIGHT SIDE of the bar)

this eliminates friction against the inner wall of the base, and provides a smooth feel AND engagement of trigger relay bar to hammer/sear.

if you look through the threads in my sig, you will see the bar polished for reference.

-Michael[/QUOTE]

[MikeMcNair]

I have done everything from fully polishing every moving part, to just the bare minimum.

in this regard (trigger mech, trigger relay bar, etc) it is easiest to polish only the parts that have metal on metal contact. so in short, YES, the part where it moves in the trigger mech, and at a minimum the right side of the bar (when looking at it installed, against the frame)

of course lubricating these points as well will maximize free movement.

also, i prefer to lubricate with the following: (this is for real steel, yet i find it WONDERFUL for many other things.....

http://www.corrosionx.com/corrosionx-for-guns.html

[kar120c]

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair

I have done everything from fully polishing every moving part, to just the bare minimum.

in this regard (trigger mech, trigger relay bar, etc) it is easiest to polish only the parts that have metal on metal contact. so in short, YES, the part where it moves in the trigger mech, and at a minimum the right side of the bar (when looking at it installed, against the frame)

of course lubricating these points as well will maximize free movement.

also, i prefer to lubricate with the following: (this is for real steel, yet i find it WONDERFUL for many other things.....

http://www.corrosionx.com/corrosionx-for-guns.html

taken a look at the threads in your signature! I readed all, months ago, great job, for sure.
A question, the Guarder Steel slide is difficult to fit? I had bad experience with Guarder kit for my Dertonics and it was made of aluminium but this slide is made of steel, harder to file and sand

[MikeMcNair]

The Guarder Steel Slides i have had (2 of them now, and the most recent is the "anti-snag" one i finished just days ago) both fit ok, but to get the smoothest cycling out of the pistols i did polish the rails on the frame, AND the inner "groove" on the slides, as well as the bottom most portion of the slides. (think of placing the slide on a table, flat. the part that touches the actual table is a HUGE point of contact on the frame, and thus needs attention)

was it difficult? no.

for best results, TIME, and SLOW filing (then polishing on the slide's grooves AND the frames rails) are highly recommended.

i am VERY picky, and want things perfect, so my approach is a little methodical. hell, i put both steel slides, and the aluminum one i have in a vice, to close the window of tolerance making the slides fit with ZERO rattle (side to side per se) and SMOOTH cycling front to back.

i have been around real steel for a while, and i see no reason a GBB cannot have the same fit and finish, as well as overall feel of being SOLID, with some time and effort.

this is hobby to me, i do not compete, and frankly barely plink with them. My son enjoys them for shooting. I enjoy them for modifying and enhancing.

-Michael

[kar120c]

How do you polish metal parts? a Dremel with soft polish wheel? and what compound? and may you suggest a way to change the glossy finish of the KJW slide (as seen compared to the Guarders in your thread)

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair

The Guarder Steel Slides i have had (2 of them now, and the most recent is the "anti-snag" one i finished just days ago) both fit ok, but to get the smoothest cycling out of the pistols i did polish the rails on the frame, AND the inner "groove" on the slides, as well as the bottom most portion of the slides. (think of placing the slide on a table, flat. the part that touches the actual table is a HUGE point of contact on the frame, and thus needs attention)

was it difficult? no.

for best results, TIME, and SLOW filing (then polishing on the slide's grooves AND the frames rails) are highly recommended.

i am VERY picky, and want things perfect, so my approach is a little methodical. hell, i put both steel slides, and the aluminum one i have in a vice, to close the window of tolerance making the slides fit with ZERO rattle (side to side per se) and SMOOTH cycling front to back.

i have been around real steel for a while, and i see no reason a GBB cannot have the same fit and finish, as well as overall feel of being SOLID, with some time and effort.

this is hobby to me, i do not compete, and frankly barely plink with them. My son enjoys them for shooting. I enjoy them for modifying and enhancing.

-Michael

[MikeMcNair]

Polishing can be very easy, and fast to do.

creativity goes a long way when you don't have access to certain tools. Perfect example: using the rubber "drum sander" bit from a dremmel shown below, you can use the rubber to hold the inside of, say, an outer barrel, and polish it in 30 seconds with a power drill.



basically, you slide this in the barrel, and tighten the top screw, causing the rubber to get squeezed in between the top and bottom washers, making it spread outward and therefore gripping the inside of the outer barrel. then, put it in a drill chuck, grab some 1000 grit sand paper, and squeeze the drills trigger while holding the paper around the barrel.

i will show you a silly picture of this crude idea shortly.

also, please read this, i think it will be helpful :

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...%2C+mikemcnair

also, to get a MATTE finish on a slide, the easiest thing is Tamiya flat clear, and it's easily found, and it's cheap. Plus, it works REALLY well, holds up well, and is HARD to mess up. just dust a few coats, and BAM, perfect matte finish.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/produc...lear/index.htm



***just make sure the cap is indeed more opaque, as there are different versions of this***

i am sure someone will chime in saying to use "DullCoat" or "DullKote" (i forget how to spell it) and i will tel you it is a product NOT for the "short attention spanned" among us.

i have used it, and i HATED it. that is my OPINION. it was terribly unforgiving, and it took an EON to dry properly. i do a lot of work on watches, and to matte a dial of a watch (or slide, or car part, etc) i stick to my Tamiya!!


EDIT:

as promised, simple, yet crude, way to polish a barrel (for instance)....

[Animalmother]

Originally Posted by e-luder

Depending on what you go with 350 is a high number to reach for.
Keep in mind, this is a Japanese gun. They are design to shoot under a certain FPS and/or energy to meet Japanese legal status. I think it's 300FPS and under 1j. Don't quote me on that though.

Initially, your gun should shoot around 270-280FPS.

What you need to get is a longer tightbore inner barrel, a good hop up bucking that can seal, a strong hammer spring AND a high flow valve.

Buy the flo valve last. If get to 350 without it, then you're good. If not, then buy one.

For the question of "how long it will last":

It's really difficult to answer questions like these. It's all dependant on the treatment/useage/aftercare whatever you want to call it, of your gun. THis goes for any airsoft gun that you end up owning. You need to take care of it.

Lube it, don't drop it, don't do whatever you think will break the gun faster or wear it out.

Simple as that.

For the Glock 18c in particular, the gun does have a tendency to wear/break faster than its G17 counterpart. THis is because of the full auto function ecxasterbating wearage everytime that switch is flicked on and the trigger is pulled....

Thank you!
Ive decided to get the 150% spring, upgrade hammer spring, pgc metal slide, lower frame, and i also wanted to get a hopuo bucking but not sure which one to get.

What does the nineball gas route rubber do?
And who makes a longer barrel? If i get a longer barrel wont it stick out the front?
Im trying to put together a parts list. Thanks for your help the research is making my head spin.

Also when im buying the parts i also have to be careful, im afraid i might get the wrong part because not everything in the g17 is compatable with the g18c. It makes my head spin

[MikeMcNair]

Originally Posted by Animalmother

Also when im buying the parts i also have to be careful, I'm afraid i might get the wrong part because not everything in the g17 is compatible with the g18c. It makes my head spin

this is a great point! not all things are compatible, yet many things you wouldn't expect ARE! things from other guns from the Marui lineup.

for instance, i had a ton of G17 and P226 and M92 "specific" parts in my g26's. they weren't supposed to be for these guns, but they worked.

in short, it took me a while to fully understand the ENTIRE mechanical make up of the things i was working on and i was able to stop the proverbial head spinning.

you sound like you are pretty much there!

-Michael

[Animalmother]

I ordered these parts for now.
Problem is this.
I ordered the Angel Ultimate DYNA Piston Head on accident. I am not even sure if it fits or what this, should I cancel it? I have until tomorrow to decide.
I have no idea how i miss that in my cart...

1 x Guarder Enhanced Recoil Spring Guide Set for Airsoft WE Marui G17 G18 S11-110 SO-425 (Parts-GE-GLK-17)
1 x Guarder Magazine Catch / Release for Marui / KJ G Series S11-029 (Parts-GE-GLK-13)
1 x Angel Ultimate DYNA Piston Head for WE TM Hi-CAPA M9 P226 1911 Glock Airsoft GBB Pistol U7-126 (AC-HC51-06)

I cant find a Firefly rocket valve or a NineBall Hop-Up Bucking in stock.
Whats the cheapest metal slide I can get?
Upgrading the plastic body necessary?

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by Animalmother

Thank you!
Ive decided to get the 150% spring, upgrade hammer spring, pgc metal slide, lower frame, and i also wanted to get a hopuo bucking but not sure which one to get.

What does the nineball gas route rubber do?
And who makes a longer barrel? If i get a longer barrel wont it stick out the front?
Im trying to put together a parts list. Thanks for your help the research is making my head spin.

Also when im buying the parts i also have to be careful, im afraid i might get the wrong part because not everything in the g17 is compatable with the g18c. It makes my head spin

You can use any VSR-10 Marui spec inner barrel for an extended length.

Most of the Marui spec pistols use this inner barrel andHop up rubber system. So, you can use an extended Hi-capa inner barrel if you want.

And yes, it will stick out.
You'll need a threaded outer barrel for mock suppressor to cover/hide the long inner barrel.

The NineBall Gas Route packing improves the gas transfer from mag to loading muzzle and helps improve the gas consumption of your gun. Essentially, it's like shimming the rubber piece on your magaine to bring it closer to the loading muzzle air intake hole.

The only parts that are not compatible on a Glock 18c from a Glock 17 are:

-rear sight
-rear sight screw
-blowback unit
-loading muzzle
-trigger bar
-hammer
-hammer bearing
-full auto sear (extra part on the G18c. The G17 does not have this as it is only a semi auto Glock and thus does not require it)
-full auto sear pin and actuator spring
-Piston head
-slide
-fire selector
-fire selector plate and actuator spring
-hammer housing

I may have forgotten a few parts here and there but these are the important ones.

For the question of which bucking you should get:

For what you're after, I suggest getting either the NineBall purple bucking or the A+ Reaps buckings. These buckings have been known to give a little bit of a power boost and from my tests, they give decent range outputs.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by kar120c

tried lubing with a grease different from silicon, being careful to stay away from seals and the trigger action is improved

What I mean by lubing parts is DRY lubing moving parts.

Basically the process begins by mixing grease and fine graphite powder (that's what I use). Put it on your gun. Rack the slide and pull trigger repeatedly for a while (with no mag in the magazine well). Sit down and browse the internet. It will take a long time.

Then when you're done, wipe off the compound.

What the process does it it smoothens out the surface area. Essentially, it's "self-polishing" and lubes your gun at the same time. This method is also beneficial because it doesn't attract any dust or debris. Nor will it clunk up like grease does or drip off like silicone does.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair;1866469[B

]The Guarder Steel Slides i have had (2 of them now, and the most recent is the "anti-snag" one i finished just days ago) both fit ok, but to get the smoothest cycling out of the pistols i did polish the rails on the frame, AND the inner "groove" on the slides, as well as the bottom most portion of the slides. (think of placing the slide on a table, flat. the part that touches the actual table is a HUGE point of contact on the frame, and thus needs attention)
[/B]
was it difficult? no.

for best results, TIME, and SLOW filing (then polishing on the slide's grooves AND the frames rails) are highly recommended.

i am VERY picky, and want things perfect, so my approach is a little methodical. hell, i put both steel slides, and the aluminum one i have in a vice, to close the window of tolerance making the slides fit with ZERO rattle (side to side per se) and SMOOTH cycling front to back.

i have been around real steel for a while, and i see no reason a GBB cannot have the same fit and finish, as well as overall feel of being SOLID, with some time and effort.

this is hobby to me, i do not compete, and frankly barely plink with them. My son enjoys them for shooting. I enjoy them for modifying and enhancing.

-Michael

While this statement is true, I will have to politely disagree...but by a little.A smidgen even

THere are many AIRSOFT slides on the market that do not touch the frame at the point you specified and still have a crappy action once mounted.

There are two major causes that I found that is almost present in most Glocks that I've worked on:

1). The bump on the blowback unit- This little bump is the source of the majority of the friction felt by the operator when he/she complains of their action woes.

This bump tends to be too proud and will hit the hammer bearing during normal operation infringing a "smooth" slide action.

This is further exasterbated by the fact that the STOCK recoil spring is not powerful enough to pull the slide to gather enough velocity for the bump to hump over that hammer bearing (i think it's part 50 on the KJW diagram)

As a result, the slide remains open if the case in question is severe.

A perfect example of this is the recent GunsModify Aluminum LightWeight Blowback unit. The ones that I received had the bump so proud that the gun will not travel fluently. In fact, I had to file material away from the hammer housing where the firing pin disconnector is AND the hammer. Crazy!

2). The other problem is because of the design on the slide rails itself. It's not a continuant guide rail like the P226's front guide rail, which is longer, for example. This causes all kinds of issues once the gun is taken apart for say...cleaning. and put back together.

A perfect example of this is the Guarder Frames. When every nut and bolt is installed, the front rail dips down causing an uneven plain for the slide to glide on. It's stupid really. lol.

At that point, it doesn't matter how much you file the underside of that slide. It WILL hit the frame regardless.

Because it's a two piece rail system, at some point they will mis-align. Especially if the front screw post breaks and front portion is not bolted to the frame properly.

Ideally, to eliminate this issue, you want a slide guide rail system that runs in ONE continuous rail. For example, like ILLusion Kinectics' system for the 2011/1911s.

Filing the "inner groove" on the slide can cause a potential for a wobbly slide. It's suppose to "hug" those guide rails as close as it can without infringing the action of the slide (that sounds...contradictory. lol.)

But yes. I still do agree with you though...

[Animalmother]

Originally Posted by e-luder

You can use any VSR-10 Marui spec inner barrel for an extended length.

Most of the Marui spec pistols use this inner barrel andHop up rubber system. So, you can use an extended Hi-capa inner barrel if you want.

And yes, it will stick out.
You'll need a threaded outer barrel for mock suppressor to cover/hide the long inner barrel.

The NineBall Gas Route packing improves the gas transfer from mag to loading muzzle and helps improve the gas consumption of your gun. Essentially, it's like shimming the rubber piece on your magaine to bring it closer to the loading muzzle air intake hole.

The only parts that are not compatible on a Glock 18c from a Glock 17 are:

-rear sight
-rear sight screw
-blowback unit
-loading muzzle
-trigger bar
-hammer
-hammer bearing
-full auto sear (extra part on the G18c. The G17 does not have this as it is only a semi auto Glock and thus does not require it)
-full auto sear pin and actuator spring
-Piston head
-slide
-fire selector
-fire selector plate and actuator spring
-hammer housing

I may have forgotten a few parts here and there but these are the important ones.

For the question of which bucking you should get:

For what you're after, I suggest getting either the NineBall purple bucking or the A+ Reaps buckings. These buckings have been known to give a little bit of a power boost and from my tests, they give decent range outputs.

Wow thanks, I think I am good to go!
Just one more thing, I accidentally ordered this.
DYNA Piston Head
Not sure if it's worth it, I actually don't know what i does.
Other then that, I am ready to get my glock going. Ive been playing with it as my primary lately I just can't get enough of it.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by Animalmother

I ordered these parts for now.
Problem is this.
I ordered the Angel Ultimate DYNA Piston Head on accident. I am not even sure if it fits or what this, should I cancel it? I have until tomorrow to decide.
I have no idea how i miss that in my cart...

1 x Guarder Enhanced Recoil Spring Guide Set for Airsoft WE Marui G17 G18 S11-110 SO-425 (Parts-GE-GLK-17)
1 x Guarder Magazine Catch / Release for Marui / KJ G Series S11-029 (Parts-GE-GLK-13)
1 x Angel Ultimate DYNA Piston Head for WE TM Hi-CAPA M9 P226 1911 Glock Airsoft GBB Pistol U7-126 (AC-HC51-06)

I cant find a Firefly rocket valve or a NineBall Hop-Up Bucking in stock.
Whats the cheapest metal slide I can get?
Upgrading the plastic body necessary?

The piston head is what seals air in for the blowback operation to occur. It "traps" the air in loading muzzle once the floating valve is closed thereby creating the rearward slide stroke.

Thus, if you have a bad piston head that cannot seal properly, you will get a poor blowback power. If it's REALLY REALLY bad, your slide will travel like....halfway or something. If SUPER DUPER BAD, your gun will just vent out all the gas.

THe "cheapest" metal slide you can get is in terms of quality and price are the 5KU ones. Be warned though. THey are realllly not that great. Horrible even...

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by MikeMcNair

Polishing can be very easy, and fast to do.

creativity goes a long way when you don't have access to certain tools. Perfect example: using the rubber "drum sander" bit from a dremmel shown below, you can use the rubber to hold the inside of, say, an outer barrel, and polish it in 30 seconds with a power drill.

basically, you slide this in the barrel, and tighten the top screw, causing the rubber to get squeezed in between the top and bottom washers, making it spread outward and therefore gripping the inside of the outer barrel. then, put it in a drill chuck, grab some 1000 grit sand paper, and squeeze the drills trigger while holding the paper around the barrel.

i will show you a silly picture of this crude idea shortly.

also, please read this, i think it will be helpful :

also, to get a MATTE finish on a slide, the easiest thing is Tamiya flat clear, and it's easily found, and it's cheap. Plus, it works REALLY well, holds up well, and is HARD to mess up. just dust a few coats, and BAM, perfect matte finish.

***just make sure the cap is indeed more opaque, as there are different versions of this***

i am sure someone will chime in saying to use "DullCoat" or "DullKote" (i forget how to spell it) and i will tel you it is a product NOT for the "short attention spanned" among us.

i have used it, and i HATED it. that is my OPINION. it was terribly unforgiving, and it took an EON to dry properly. i do a lot of work on watches, and to matte a dial of a watch (or slide, or car part, etc) i stick to my Tamiya!!


EDIT:

as promised, simple, yet crude, way to polish a barrel (for instance)....

[/URL]

Beyond polishing the slide rails/lugs, there are other modifications that I feel can greatly enhance the performance/cycling of the gun. When I start with any glock build, I remove all the innards of the lower frame keeping the front and rear chassis, and remove all the innards from the slide keeping only the bbu. I would manually slide them back and forth and observe, listen, and feel for any resistance. A lot of the times the lugs dont slide smoothly into the slide, and hence, corners on the lugs need to be smoothen out. Other times, it can be the protrusion from the BBU rubbing on the top of the rear chassis as the slide cycles, or the side of the hammer when it is cocked. You need to find out points of resistance and address them individually. Like what Eluder said, you can use graphite powder and manually rack your slide over and over to achieve that smoothness in cycling. Its a very fine agent that removes all the microscopic unevenness on the slide/lug.

In terms of slides, Guarder ones are hit and miss depending on the type and batch. I dont really like steel slides given the increase in gas consumption, heaviness and sluggish ROF. I find aluminum slides to be the best.

Here is a video I made for a user in Poland who was interested in maximizing the performance of his/her Marui g17/18c. I discussed all my tips and tricks in how to get the most performance out of your glock with what modifications and aftermarket parts used.

Video is titled "Custom modifications Marui g17" and can be found here:

Custom Modifications Marui G17 - YouTube


Custom Tokyo Marui G17/G18C - YouTube

Originally Posted by Animalmother

I ordered these parts for now.
Problem is this.
I ordered the Angel Ultimate DYNA Piston Head on accident. I am not even sure if it fits or what this, should I cancel it? I have until tomorrow to decide.
I have no idea how i miss that in my cart...

1 x Guarder Enhanced Recoil Spring Guide Set for Airsoft WE Marui G17 G18 S11-110 SO-425 (Parts-GE-GLK-17)
1 x Guarder Magazine Catch / Release for Marui / KJ G Series S11-029 (Parts-GE-GLK-13)
1 x Angel Ultimate DYNA Piston Head for WE TM Hi-CAPA M9 P226 1911 Glock Airsoft GBB Pistol U7-126 (AC-HC51-06)

I cant find a Firefly rocket valve or a NineBall Hop-Up Bucking in stock.
Whats the cheapest metal slide I can get?
Upgrading the plastic body necessary?

I echo eluder's reply above. I found the best results with these parts:

1. Inner barrel- PDI 6.01 inner barrel for max fps
2. Hop up rubber- A+ reaps bucking (tight fitting with inner barrel and concaves with bb)
3. Nozzle- airsoft surgeon nozzle with piston head
4. BLow back housing- guns modify light weight bbu (because of its minimal weight, recoil is more violent and cycling is much faster)
5. Recoil rod- shooters design (less friction/resistance compared to guarder's steel rod..I can actually hear and feel less resistance using the SD rod over the guarder)
6. Hammer- guns modify zero hammer version 3 (the dynamic tilting of the bearing makes cycling much smoother compared to the traditional ball bearing type)
7. Floating valve- firefly floating valve, heard wonderful results with these
8. High output valves- yes you can get high output valves, but don't forget, high output valves meaning more gas released per shot, meaning that u MAY be unable to fire all the bbs in a mag depending on how efficient your other components are operating.
9. Hammer spring- shooters design (tension in the arms barely weaken over time as opposed to the ones from guarder)
10. Gas route- nine ball gas route (forms a tight seal with the air nozzle, or you can build up the gas opening of the air nozzle with gasket maker or crazy glue. Fps will be higher and recoil is also more consistent as you can see in my videos)
11. Slides- Guarder, shooters design, detonator, AIRSOFT SURGEON (thumbs up!). Dont get the cheap shit like 5KU or AABB, you're just creating more problems

With all the upgrades above with the exception of the firefly rocket valve and high output valves, I can achieve an fps between 315 to 325. My goal is not to achieve the highest fps or cqb limits of 350fps. Instead I strive to achieve best consistency with fps, consistency with blowback, accuracy with the best fps without compromising any if the above. You can have a high fps with accuracy of a super soaker or with a gun that breaks after 10 shots (watch my video when I consistently cycled my g18c over 100x continuously) which a means nothing.

Getting upgraded parts is one thing, installing and modifying them to perform optimally is another.