We play airsoft because we can't afford paintball?

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Forever_kaos

I'd like to add a note of clarification.

When you think about it, how many minors have we heard ask "Can I play in a public park?"
Now I know we've heard and seen a few groups of this actually going on.

If we can work something out for those minors to have a location to safely play at. Maybe it's the 'lesser of evils' ?

Hell, a game I was at very recently there was I believe a 14 JUST turned 15 year old.
Did we have any problems? No not at all, he was a great player.
If you can demonstrate the respect, maturity and understanding. And to boot, demonstrate you know your shit and safety?

Sure why not, I'd be for it at certain events if they knew what they were doing.

unfortunately majority of the underager that visit these forums already made up their mind about playing even if they are disregarding the community safety and acceptable standards. I have no problem playing with underagers as long as they behave and adhere to the standards and rules placed by the community and they don't do anything that will jeopardize the hobby by acting stupid.

[Adrenalineguy]

All Retailers i know of are 18+. Parents buy them for kids no problem.

The problem is the placement in stores and parents, Both paintball and Airsoft are stuck right bewteen the toy section and the gun section in most stores.
I think Training Should include Parents. When i sell a simple $200 paintmarker to a parent that I know is buying it for thier kid. I tell them that any problem that is cause with this marker is an offence under the fire arms act: You should see thier faces. Then they want to get junior to the field for same safety training, then they might keep that thing under lock and key.

Education is key,

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Adrenalineguy

All Retailers i know of are 18+. Parents buy them for kids no problem.

The problem is the placement in stores and parents, Both paintball and Airsoft are stuck right bewteen the toy section and the gun section in most stores.
I think Training Should include Parents. When i sell a simple $200 paintmarker to a parent that I know is buying it for thier kid. I tell them that any problem that is cause with this marker is an offence under the fire arms act: You should see thier faces. Then they want to get junior to the field for same safety training, then they might keep that thing under lock and key.

Education is key,

Well the only thing I would say is, push forward a training course which majority of game host will recognize. Just like the CFSC, hell even CFSC (although alot of material pertains to firearms) could help in educating. Honestly, we need to go beyond the AV system. Its my 2nd year on this forum, I've been a year underage, 1 year 18, what has change? besides the fact that I can buy booze, get PAL/RPAL, and never a chance to face Junevile court nothing. A safety course which covers the recognition of the laws, regulations and how a person should treat airsoft could help.
Courses covers: (basic)
What is an Airsoft
What is a milsim/skirmish
How should you treat an airsoft (eg ACTS and PROVE from CFSC helps)
How should you transport, display, store airsoft?
What are the legal aspects of airsoft?
What is the defintion of replica, firearms?

Honestly, some people on this forum (including myself) sometimes think they dont deserve to play airsoft for their attitude.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

Honestly, we need to go beyond the AV system. Its my 2nd year on this forum, I've been a year underage, 1 year 18, what has change? besides the fact that I can buy booze, get PAL/RPAL, and never a chance to face Junevile court nothing.

I'll tell you what has changed.

You went from being a minor who isn't wholely responsible for his actions to an adult that IS wholely responsible for his actions. We can sit there and tell a minor all about the rules and regs, but they basically get a slap on the wrist if they break them. So where is the incentive to behave?

As a community, we have agreed that to try and avoid our beloved passtime getting bad press and being terminated legislatively, we would prefer only adults handle these toys. Thats the AV system. And it's pretty much the only rule we have, so I don't understand why people whine so much.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Adrenalineguy

All Retailers i know of are 18+. Parents buy them for kids no problem.

The problem is the placement in stores and parents, Both paintball and Airsoft are stuck right bewteen the toy section and the gun section in most stores.
I think Training Should include Parents. When i sell a simple $200 paintmarker to a parent that I know is buying it for thier kid. I tell them that any problem that is cause with this marker is an offence under the fire arms act: You should see thier faces. Then they want to get junior to the field for same safety training, then they might keep that thing under lock and key.

Education is key,

unfortunately you are probably one of few retailers out there that upholds this training policy, a lot of other retailers never even think twice before they sell it's becoming a point that profit over ride common sense and community safety and interest.

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by Forever_kaos

Hell, a game I was at very recently there was I believe a 14 JUST turned 15 year old.
Did we have any problems? No not at all, he was a great player.
If you can demonstrate the respect, maturity and understanding. And to boot, demonstrate you know your shit and safety?

Sure why not, I'd be for it at certain events if they knew what they were doing.

Most of the time if the minor makes a point to try and join in using common sense (ie. playing at a field and not at a park) they are really well behaved. The thing that you have to be wary about is the ones who play in the parks and such and give a bad name to most of the minors.

I'd actually wager that minors are sometimes more well behaved if they're playing at a field cause either the host has made an exception to the 18+ rule (assuming 18+ only games) or they know that if they are being held to a higher standard.

Now contrast that to the minors that we see all the time who's parents buy them Krakens and stuff from BassPro and just let them have at it.

In fact the thing that I'm more worried about than minors, is adults (18+) like your typical college frat boy cause they usually have the means to purchase and no one is stopping them (except maybe an AV'er giving access to the classifieds) they can go to any Cansoft retailer and buy (including the vigilant ones who sell to 18+ only), cause they're 18.

EDIT: Let me add too that I still think that you should be 18+ to own regardless (in the case of parents buying, they should ideally be active players and have the guns under lock and key). There's just way too much that can go wrong with minors who aren't legally responsible for their actions (whether it's a combination of peer pressure, their own frontal lobe not being fully developed, or their friends (who may not be responsible) getting their hands on the gun).

[pusangani]

Originally Posted by wildcard

like Bass Pro?, today while shopping for Christmas a few kids was admiring the Broxa and TF AEG packages, these guys are probably no older than 13. One of them actually took the Broxa AK to his parents and to my surprise they actually put it in their shopping cart.

no he means like 007, mach1, velocityarms,etc.

at Sample Gallery, the airsoft store where I work, we have a sign that says 18+ only admitted, so as soon as one of these kiddies comes in we tell them, "no kids allowed", I've personally told kids don't even bother bringing their parents as I won't sell to them.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by pusangani

no he means like 007, mach1, velocityarms,etc.

at Sample Gallery, the airsoft store where I work, we have a sign that says 18+ only admitted, so as soon as one of these kiddies comes in we tell them, "no kids allowed", I've personally told kids don't even bother bringing their parents as I won't sell to them.

can't say about 007 & mach1 but velocity arms Frank always do his best to ensure that it's 18+ sales and now that he have a physical site he will even be more strict. As far as minors issue i think L473ncy got it nailed in the head it's the kids that play in the park is the one to worry not the one that abide by the rules

[Adrenalineguy]

Originally Posted by wildcard

unfortunately you are probably one of few retailers out there that upholds this training policy, a lot of other retailers never even think twice before they sell it's becoming a point that profit over ride common sense and community safety and interest.

This is a problem in all shooting sports. Note: car carriers on trains are all now cover. One reason is because the cars were always full of holes.

London is one of the cities that has a law against discharge of an air gun. That sucks for the good guys, but, it gives law enforcement a tool to slap people with. Last summer we saw a full on SWAT style bust including 15 officers in full Tatical gear and guns drawn, Knee in the back of 10 face down minors that were playing airgun games in town. Equipment lost. Pick up your kids at the station.
Nobody wants to see the wrong lagislation come in, but we all hope for a solution. sticky spot. So the industry (rightly so) avoids asking for more rules. many industries have come up with their own solutions to the problem. landscaping... Fanshaw now offers a, one day, Chainsaw training course that has become kinda manditory for people working for reputable companies with chainsaws. The course was designed and brought about by people in the industry that new there was a need.

This thread is great, I am really encouraged to see such a great discussion. I'm learning Alot. Maybe a Mod could split this topic and it can carry on.

[HarDcoreChronie]

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

It's pretty much assured that the .50 cal revolution will fall flat on it's face. They tried it before, didn't work. It's basically one company (Smart Parts) trying to shove this down everyone's throat. No other manufacturer's are on board.
.

Exactly what i was going to say. Its all a bunch of greedy Bs.

The 2 sports cannot be compared appropriately.

I am divided myself. I started with paintball. Folks will debate that paintball lacks realism as much as airsoft lacks ballistic intensity. Speaking for myself, it's near impossible to duplicated the adrenaline rush I get out of playing a Sunday paintball tournament at say, Flagraiders. Its just not the same as going out to play airsoft - not for me -

On this same token, there can be many weekends where I just don't need or want to be involved in the kind of stress that follows intense paintball.

The demands are different for each sport, you get what you wana get out of them.

IMO I think they compliment each other beautifully. You can't have it all, so have both.

(Edit) I have never attended or played any type of Airsoft 'Tourmament' [but would love to]. I have more experience in paintball.

[pballa:(]

i only paintball because im not of age to airsoft yet but i really really wanna playy

[-Trooper-]

Originally Posted by Adrenalineguy

This is a problem in all shooting sports. Note: car carriers on trains are all now cover. One reason is because the cars were always full of holes.

London is one of the cities that has a law against discharge of an air gun. That sucks for the good guys, but, it gives law enforcement a tool to slap people with.

Sorry to get off topic, but does that mean we can play airsoft games in London without the risk of the police seizing our equipment?

[Mr.Shiney]

No what he is gettting at that there is a full on ban in London against, BB guns, Paintball, Airsoft and Firearm discharge within the City Limits, provided the discharge is outdoors.

You may get your gear seized, it would all depend on the state of mind of the Police Constable you deal with.

So you might be able to shoot it off in your backyard with a "gentle" warning, or you might get the full tactical warning.

Either way only shoot in an area that is unviewable to the public (indoors) or out of the City Limits. Again you will need Land Owner permission.

[Adrenalineguy]

London prohibits the discharge of any airgun.

No, by law, you can nont play in parks, or on private land in the city of London.

[MrDow123]

at Sample Gallery, the airsoft store where I work, we have a sign that says 18+ only admitted, so as soon as one of these kiddies comes in we tell them, "no kids allowed", I've personally told kids don't even bother bringing their parents as I won't sell to them.

I got a question for you? Have you ever told that to someone who "looked" like they were under 18 but they actually weren't? I must say, I look pretty young for my age (I don't look 12 mind you) but if some guy misjudged my age and told me "get out, no kids allowed" I would be incredibly offended.

But as far as the topic at hand goes, I think that there are very competent minors out there that are mature enough to play with the big boys, but because of the age restrictions on airsoft they are forced to go to paintball and learn very different techniques/skills/attitudes than we would like them to have in airsoft.
I believe a training course or something for minors would be a good idea, and I gotta say I don't like the idea of airsoft "elitists" snuffing out these minors that CAN play responsibly but because of their age are completely restricted.
A valid point was raised in this thread, like being under 18 you are not held accountable for your actions but once you turn 18 you are fully accountable for all your actions. I like the idea of a certificate or training day for minors to show to us that they have the right attitude and skillset to play with adults.