Real Weight

[Rickshaw]

Where did you get the hydrostone? And did you mix it and all that jazz?

[Oborous]

Edited for emphasis

Originally Posted by Rickshaw

I've been trying to find ways to make my gear feel more realistic, with cement in fake M67's

I would be most upset if you were to ever utilize a cement filled inert grenade in a game.

There is a point to realism, but some things are dis-recommended from a safety standpoint. Utilizing Safe-T-nades from Bent Barrel Airsoft would be better, as there is lead shot in a foam casing, it's still heavy, but safer to use.

If you are deadset on weight, buy some scuba weights, small ones, and duct tape them into your grenade pouches to simulate the carrying weight without increasing the risk to other players by throwing heavy masses around.



As to the armour,

Technically all SAPI (ESAPI, HSAPI, etc.) training plates are ITAR restricted under the US Munitions List, as they are training aids to significant military hardware. You may pursue this via a DSP-83 end user certificate, you may pursue this via Brownells as a special order to have them help you export this under the $100 wholesale price exemption limit, or pursing the PO box in the US option (which still is an illegal export of significant military hardware).

Further, the team wendy plates are only sized medium, 10x12 of SAPI cut. Measure from clavacle notch to belly button, and then nipple to nipple, look up what size you should be getting, in my experience in Airsoft in Canada, most players either should be using a Small or an Extra-Large plate, few people are properly a Medium.

There are other training plate manufactuers, I'd suggest looking at ATS tactical, again you'd need to pursue proper export proceedures.

If you're going to be seeking realistic weights, then you really should be realizing the proper utilization of the gear, which many of us are not. As I mentioned above regarding the size of plates, that also means the placement of the plates... there have been studies done that show most soldiers in Iraq and Afgahnastan are wearing their plates incorrectly, too low. Talk to many of the CF vets here and ask them where they put frag grenades if they had mounting options. Ask how many twenty year vets would put tape and other things on their grenades to really, really make sure the spoon stays put.

Appropriate weight is all find and dandy, but realize that we still are players in airsoft, our AEG/GBBR ranges are nothing like real world equivalents, the lack of training, physical fitness, and many other aspects do not translate well. That abstraction between the real world and airsoft will always exist, so there are times that I believe the pursuit of realism can be taken to far.

To each his own, fill your boots and have fun.... please no cement grenades.

[SINN]

did he say he was going to throw cement grenades around? hahahahaha

[AngelusNex]

Originally Posted by SINN

did he say he was going to throw cement grenades around? hahahahaha

People will call that hit for sure. Lol.

[Rickshaw]

Originally Posted by Oborous

Edited for emphasis


I would be most upset if you were to ever utilize a cement filled inert grenade in a game.

There is a point to realism, but some things are dis-recommended from a safety standpoint. Utilizing Safe-T-nades from Bent Barrel Airsoft would be better, as there is lead shot in a foam casing, it's still heavy, but safer to use.

If you are deadset on weight, buy some scuba weights, small ones, and duct tape them into your grenade pouches to simulate the carrying weight without increasing the risk to other players by throwing heavy masses around.



As to the armour,

Technically all SAPI (ESAPI, HSAPI, etc.) training plates are ITAR restricted under the US Munitions List, as they are training aids to significant military hardware. You may pursue this via a DSP-83 end user certificate, you may pursue this via Brownells as a special order to have them help you export this under the $100 wholesale price exemption limit, or pursing the PO box in the US option (which still is an illegal export of significant military hardware).

Further, the team wendy plates are only sized medium, 10x12 of SAPI cut. Measure from clavacle notch to belly button, and then nipple to nipple, look up what size you should be getting, in my experience in Airsoft in Canada, most players either should be using a Small or an Extra-Large plate, few people are properly a Medium.

There are other training plate manufactuers, I'd suggest looking at ATS tactical, again you'd need to pursue proper export proceedures.

If you're going to be seeking realistic weights, then you really should be realizing the proper utilization of the gear, which many of us are not. As I mentioned above regarding the size of plates, that also means the placement of the plates... there have been studies done that show most soldiers in Iraq and Afgahnastan are wearing their plates incorrectly, too low. Talk to many of the CF vets here and ask them where they put frag grenades if they had mounting options. Ask how many twenty year vets would put tape and other things on their grenades to really, really make sure the spoon stays put.

Appropriate weight is all find and dandy, but realize that we still are players in airsoft, our AEG/GBBR ranges are nothing like real world equivalents, the lack of training, physical fitness, and many other aspects do not translate well. That abstraction between the real world and airsoft will always exist, so there are times that I believe the pursuit of realism can be taken to far.

To each his own, fill your boots and have fun.... please no cement grenades.

Cement grenades are not for throwing first off, I use Thunder B's if I ever really feel the need for a room clearance, but given the fields I play on that's rarely an issue. Secondly I know the legal implications of getting training plates, that's why I was seeking a homemade option to begin with. Next, I'm an inch larger than a medium and wear a 6094 which fits tightly to my body. And putting tape on a grenade spoon has it's pro's and con's. For one it can be safer, but with the kind of heat they can be exposed to the tape can fail, and besides it's just adding a fourth safety to an already quite safe weapons system.

Finally I'm not doing this for much more than to up the antee and try to have a little more fun, which in my mind is hanging out and getting dirty. I realize that I'm not going to get a 100% realistic experience in airsoft, but that's why I'm in the reserves :P.

[Off_kilter]

Originally Posted by Rickshaw

Cement grenades are not for throwing first off, I use Thunder B's if I ever really feel the need for a room clearance, but given the fields I play on that's rarely an issue. Secondly I know the legal implications of getting training plates, that's why I was seeking a homemade option to begin with. Next, I'm an inch larger than a medium and wear a 6094 which fits tightly to my body. And putting tape on a grenade spoon has it's pro's and con's. For one it can be safer, but with the kind of heat they can be exposed to the tape can fail, and besides it's just adding a fourth safety to an already quite safe weapons system.

Finally I'm not doing this for much more than to up the antee and try to have a little more fun, which in my mind is hanging out and getting dirty. I realize that I'm not going to get a 100% realistic experience in airsoft, but that's why I'm in the reserves :P.

Must Resist Trolling the Mo

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by -Skeletor-

There are a few messages and safety posters out saying taping grenades is not required(for safety) and is not allowed. I don't doubt some people still do it, but it wouldn't be common.

US Mil seems to be the same
http://www.army.mil/article/10326/

Look up the WW1 mousetrap grenades, some of this is literally a century of institutional memory.

My experience with the vets is people that were grenade instructors, after seeing the crazy shit that can go on with those death eggs, they taped. There is tape and there is tape, something that is purchased from Home Depot vs. a Mil spec 3M product costing $20 a roll. I'm just trying to say that Mr. Grenade is not your friend, and that they are often a low usage item compared to 40mm these days (well, except smoke grenades, never can have enough of those it seems).

You can also look up things like TTP's for NFDD's, flash bangs are recommended to be placed on front of armour to prevent damage from an ND of whatever sort.

[FoxhoundNB]

The guys I've seen tape grenades are the guys who are too stupid to tie up their own boots; and they quickly get corrected. People who are typically given grenades are usually pretty familiar with them. In my experience anyway. There's already a safety clip, safety pin, and the pouch holding the spoon; no-one was ever worried about their grenades going off randomly. It never even came up as a thing

[Rickshaw]

I don't even know how taping grenades came up, but I'll just say I'm less afraid of a grenade going off in my pouch than I am about tripping and ruining my ankle or something stupid like that because grenades are ridiculously safe.

Anyways, I think I'm going to use plaster in my fake plates and see how that works, if it's crap I'll just buy training plates. What about mags? Are there AEG M4 mags that replicate the weight of a fully loaded mag or is that something I'll have to make up?

[Black Patch]

Hey there RickShaw,

As you are in the Reserves anyways you will be pretty fit. I have been out of the reserves for nearly 6 and a half years now and I still am.

I would guess one of the things you wish to get from this exercise is extra training for doing your job within the reserves. Am I sort of correct?
I do not know the average weight of Canadaian soldiers loadouts but when I served in the British military it was sitting around 70lbs to 80lbs depending on where I was and what I was doing. Add a huge increase to this with the 120 litre Bergen.... But then again you know all about being well overloaded.

As we are taught, improvise, adapt and overcome.
most of the Airsoft equipment can be modified to "Real Steel" weights by the simple addition of weights.

E.g: Your helmet can be modified to the correct weight by the simple addition of very small, low profile, lead weights on the inside. These have to be placed around the centre of balance to maintain equilibrium on your head and thus reduce neck stresses. The weights can be glued in place or drilled through and held in place by small screws.

Use a GBB over an AEG. Carry the full load of 8 to 10 mags. If you carry extra ammo for the LMG as an AG then small lead weights in the base next to the battery will assist in the correct magazine weighting.

I guess you run a PC so carry a hydration pouch, IFAK, Mag pouches (8 to 10 or whatever your issue is in the reserves) Radio pouch (I use an old Kenwood TK 353 roughly the same weight as a PRC 148 Just smaller) etc etc etc.... All the other crap such as snacks, maps, compass, pens, pencils, mess kit etc etc.

Plates have been discussed, lots of pretty awesome and inventive ways of doing it.

Anyway's, all that drivel I spout is probably off topic in some way or other. You know all the in's and out's as you are serving and carrying everything and the kitchen sink gets somewhat tiresome!

As a side note: weigh the gear you use in the Reserves, that will tell you what you need to do in terms of adjustments.

Have fun and stay safe on the Job.

[thpethalK]

Originally Posted by Rickshaw

Where did you get the hydrostone? And did you mix it and all that jazz?

Hydrostone was purchased from my local Currys (This one is frequented often so the turnaround on their inventory is better than some others). Mixed it with a cement mixing head and power drill in a bucket and poured it into the fake plates with a funnel. Let it cure for about a week standing upright in the garage and then plugged the hole with some silicone.

[Rickshaw]

Thanks for the info ksuechuc, I'll keep my eyes open for it as it sounds like my safest bet.

Black patch, you're somewhat correct about my intentions but the real idea can be summed up by 'Embrace the suck'. I embrace it and love sweating my balls off and having a good work-out while running around with a ton of weight and feeling 'Goddamnit that was awesome!'. And thanks for the pointers, I was looking into the lead weights idea as I saw them used in cheap springers back in the day to make them weigh more than the plastic that they were. A GBB is a little out of my means right now however, I just bought a new VFC 416 and put in a bunch of upgrades for it, but it's on my to do list .

Thanks for the good pointers guys.