Chopping bb's - splinters in internals: PROBLEM SOLVED

[Riko]

Hi everybody!

Yesterday I went to my seller to pick up my scar, but I ended up staying about 7 hours in his workshop!! LOL
Let me say first that my seller turned out to be a very competent guy, he knows everything and is very creative in fixing solutions
However its the first time he had to upgrade a gas blowback riffle, he saw it as a challenge.

Reason for my long stay is we had probs with the feeding after installing new ratech Long inner barrel + stinger.
It would pile up bb's and none would exit or sometimes 7 at a time...
After installing the normal barrel and stock hop up it was okay.
But when i tested it later at home, it would again pile up bb's
Solution: when we tested all day we never lubed or greased
So the solution was quite simple to that problem, spray a shitload of silicone oil and grease the bolt area.
These rifles are know to malfunction IF you don't take care of them after each use, so you must maintainance this gun alot!

2nd issue, at the top of the hammer theres a circle like thing held in place by a pin, that pin now falls off all the time...


Whats the purpose of that circle thing on the hammer? is it important, could I do without?
If not can I locktite that pin holding the circle thing in place?
Solution: replace with RA Tech trigger mechanism, not only trigger but also the disconnecter.
Cause if you only replace the hammer and trigger that other part will brake cause its pot metal....
RA Tech has a full trigger kit.

3rd issue: chopping of bb's, details of the problem at post #13.
Solution: see last post


So, its not exactly ready to fire unfortunatelly.
HOWEVER, I DIG THE LOOKS, especially with all the gismoes on it.
Pics will be put on later as soon as I got my issues fixed
So, mixed feelings: it looks abs badass, but i cant fire it.


And since my seller is not in my immidiate neighbourhood + shipping airsoftweapons internally in my country (Belgium) is forbidden, I will go to him with my issues somewhere in the future....
So for now its just a showcase piece...and i will try to fix as many as i can by myself based on board comments.
So I hope some can help.



Greetz,
Riko

[Ross]

A few months ago while I was plinking, that pin and bearing fell out of my scar. this bearing is very important. if you fire the gun without the bearing, you will damage the hammer and scrape up the big grey bolt carrier. I used crazy glue and locktite to keep the pin in place but it didn`t work. After firing a few rounds of full auto the pin comes loose again. As a temporary fix, I went to a rc hobby store and bought a replacement bearing. the pin fits so snuggly into the bearing that it can no longer fall out. But this is only a temporary fix. I`m going to replace the hammer piece itseft from ra-tech. hopefully that will help.

edit: This will probably not fix your trigger mech problem. your going to have to open up your trigger mech box( very carefully in a tupperware box so ball bearings don`t fly away on you) I bet the springs that resist the hammer are bent or broken, or the firing pin is broken or something.

If you don`t know what your doing. Watch this video: YouTube - WE-Tech SCAR-L: Lower Receiver Takedown
And then watch this one: YouTube - WE-Tech SCAR-L: Trigger Assembly Takedown (Part #93)

[Riko]

My findings is there is nothing blocking the bb's in the barrel, I even put on the hob up rubber with the least significant bulb, when I tested and compared it with the other hob up that has a much bigger bulb sticking out, the bb's wouldn't roll out of the barrel, I had to blow to get the bb out.
But with the hop up that has the least significant bulb, the bb's just rolled out.
So as far as hop up, no blocking, but the inner barrel doenst seem 100% clean, some black dots I can see when looking in it withy my naked eyes.
But I would suspect all of those things (type of hop up, and minimal dirt) would not be the determinative factor for the bb's to group?

Although I would like to ask if it is common practice that one cleans his inner barrels with some sort of rod?


Firing in auto is okay, I spraid the internals and the bolt area wild a shitload of silicon oil and everything runs smooth, bolt goes back into place, trigger action works in semi and in auto.
So, so far so good, fortunattely


About the circle thing, its a roller that reduces wear against the bolt someone told me.
But meanwhile I have already fired some rounds (5 good ones only, one bb got stuck and with my last shot the gas went out) and I have noticed afterwards that the metal of the hammer is a bit worn off because of the scratching against the bolt I think (so unlike what was told, the wear is on the hammer, not the bolt :s)
See pic of worn hammer:



You can see on both top views (left and right) of the hammer, that on the left flank there is a gap....caused from the bolt. (see red markings, but its a bit too dark red)
The picture is taken with the roller back on place afterwards, locktited

But I hope the gap is not a deal since the silincer is back on place, so the hammer wont be further harmed.



I will try single shots attempt within a few moments....and meanwhile, here are some pics:

[Ross]

the gap doesn`t matter. as long as the bearing will roll loosely and the actual hammer doesn`t scrape against the carrier. I don`t think you saw my first post on this page. lol.

[Riko]

hmm, on suggestion of somebody else on Arnieairsoft, they said that I could locktite it....so in my case, I have indeed reinstalled that roller, but the pin locktited, so it doesnt roll lossely anymore....

I quote: "The round thing is a roller so it would reduce wear against the bolt. It's meant to be free rolling but you can apply locktite on the pin that holds it."

is this bad?



edit: I indeed did not read your message
Okay, so you have already received your new ratech hammer? or are you using a replacement bearing?
Is this the ra tech hammer you are talking about? http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/...tem=RAT-WE-022
I might get that replacement too I guess.

About the trigger issues, I have not got any trigger issues now
I spraid a shitload of silicon oil everywere, and the trigger responds as it should now....And I have already installed the ra tech firing pin and valve locker btw.


My main returning issue is still that bb's are filling up inside the barrel.
But as I said, I will make some single shots attempts this evening, and see what will happen...

[Sim123456]

Good luck fixing it, nice look, I think I never saw a SCAR with that much accessories! Look more like a marksmen rifle with the bi-pod and the mock suppressor!

[Ross]

yeah, the cnc hammer is the one im getting. havnt gotten it yet though. right now im using the replacement bearing. works fine for now. I have experienced bbs building up in the barrel. although my problem for that was a little broken metal piece that moves up and down. I can't remember what it's called. I would check the o-rings on the valve. i was using regular silicone oil from canadian tire to lube the gun and later I found out that that stuff eats away rubber. So I had little gouges in the o-rings. i think gas was escaping from them because one of the o-rings was pulled out of it's lip one time. the npas fixed that.

I hope you can get yours fixed. I too want a barrel extension. I know where to get the inner barrel but I don't know where I can get an outer barrel extension. i want to improve the accuracy on it.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Sim123456

Good luck fixing it, nice look, I think I never saw a SCAR with that much accessories! Look more like a marksmen rifle with the bi-pod and the mock suppressor!

thx mate, I got a sniper thing going on I guess

And for now, I enjoy it even if it don't shoot, lol.
But I will try to figure out myself what is wrong, by the help of people on forums thru films I will upload in time...

My last resort is to go back to my seller, but I would like to figure it myself

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Ross

yeah, the cnc hammer is the one im getting. havnt gotten it yet though. right now im using the replacement bearing. works fine for now. I have experienced bbs building up in the barrel. although my problem for that was a little broken metal piece that moves up and down. I can't remember what it's called. I would check the o-rings on the valve. i was using regular silicone oil from canadian tire to lube the gun and later I found out that that stuff eats away rubber. So I had little gouges in the o-rings. i think gas was escaping from them because one of the o-rings was pulled out of it's lip one time. the npas fixed that.

I hope you can get yours fixed. I too want a barrel extension. I know where to get the inner barrel but I don't know where I can get an outer barrel extension. i want to improve the accuracy on it.

I heard on another board that if I will replace the stock hammer with a steel one, I better replace the other part below that hammer (forgot the name)
Cause if that is the only part in steel, the other pot metal parts will brake.
So, I should buy this trigger kit: http://www.wgcshop.com/wgc2008/main/...tem=RAT-WE-023
First I will wait and see how well the locktite will hold.


About the bb's building in the barrel, my seller installed the npas himself (I was there 7 hours lol, he did different guns all day)
The kit wasnt a perfect fit, had to use locktite, cause the part you can adjust the fps always would unscrew.
We even used a part from the original valve. And at the end even some rubbers from the orignal valve.
But the valve is not the problem.
Also the silicon oil is for airsoft (cybergun).
At the end we reinstalled the stock barrel with the stock hop up. And it was fine.
Later I tried it at home and after 2 mags, it went like before.
Now I installed the longer inner barrel again, but with the stock hop up.
And the main problem stays, for now...so it remains a mystery

And where is that little metal part situated you are refering to in your old problem? Than I can check that part too.
That fixed the building of the bb's?

Gonna test first thing tomorrow after I oiled everything up....



Ow, that outer barrel I got from airsoftglobal (clockwise)
But it seems that the one I bought was the last one, cause its already out of stock....part no WE-OB-NO4-AG on their website

Airsoftbuddy also sell one, but he didnt reply to my emails, so I bought from airsoftglobal instead....
http://www.airsoftbuddy.com/index_ep...roducts_id=513

And the counterclockwise (most common it seems) versions of those barrels you can also find in every major airsoftshop.
But I guess your thread is also clockwise.

[Ross]

Yeah I had to put locktight on the little rod part but that was it. I don't know why you had to locktight the thread that adjusts the fps. Wouldn't that mean you can no longer adjust the fps because locktight is keeping it there? The metal part I was refering to was the same one that broke on this guy. http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=102993

im not sure if your bbs aren't coming out because they are hitting something in the inside of the extended barrel. Or if the tightbore barrel is too tight maybe? Or there is not enough compression pushing on the bb. It's hard to tell. Since you have a stock hop up and a stinger hop up. And a stock barrel and a "precision" barrel. You should install the stock barrel with the stinger hop up, or the precision barrel with the stock hop up. That might narrow down where the problem is.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Ross

Yeah I had to put locktight on the little rod part but that was it. I don't know why you had to locktight the thread that adjusts the fps. Wouldn't that mean you can no longer adjust the fps because locktight is keeping it there? The metal part I was refering to was the same one that broke on this guy. http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=102993

im not sure if your bbs aren't coming out because they are hitting something in the inside of the extended barrel. Or if the tightbore barrel is too tight maybe? Or there is not enough compression pushing on the bb. It's hard to tell. Since you have a stock hop up and a stinger hop up. And a stock barrel and a "precision" barrel. You should install the stock barrel with the stinger hop up, or the precision barrel with the stock hop up. That might narrow down where the problem is.

Well not the piece that you still can adjust is locktited, remeber the valve has other parts screwed on, those parts had to be locktited....so I can still adjust fps.
But its hard to explain since I wasn't the one doing all the installation and adjustments

Oooow thats the valve locker your refering too, the famous part that always brakes
Well, thats already a ratech part here with my scar....Also the firing pin is from ratech already.
So thats not the problem.

And the bb's cant hit the extended barrel my inner barrel is longer than my extended barrel.
But the problem is at the beginning of the inner barrel, at the hop up area.
So I suspect the problem is situated somewhere within the inner barrel or hop up, or a combo of that....
Since we switched hop up systems, it didnt work...
When we put back stock parts, it works...but like I said after 2 mags at home, that also didnt work....strangly, the bb's still build up.

Also I use the best kind of bb's you can use with RA Tech inner barrels, the G&G's .02.
Even RA Tech adviced those specific bb's, if not those, I must get taiwan bb's at least.
I especially bought those bb's for my scar.
So those G&G bb also cannot be the problem.

And like i said also, I spent 7 hours with my seller that is a good fixer and never quits
We also tried every possibility
Stock barrel, stock hop up.
Ra Tech barrel, ra tech hop up
Ra Tech barrel, stock hop up.
(not, stock barrel, stinger hop up, since I want to use the long ra tech barrel)
It would be easy if my seller had already some WE Scars at his disposal that worked, so we can switch parts to see what is the problem.
But unfortunatelly he didnt + it was his first WE Scar he worked on...

So it must be the hop up or inner barrel or like you say, compression.
But the Npas is working fine.

For now, I will replace the chamber with the chamber that came with the stinger kit. (you know, that piece that holds the inner barrel to its place in the upper receiver, from wich you also have one from RA Tech in the Stinger kit)
Dunno if it makes any difference since both stock and ra tech chambers look the same...?


And if that doesnt work, I am really out of options here.
But I certainly suspect it to be a little small detail that needs adjustment or fixing to solve my problem, like in most airsoft problems I guess

[Ross]

wow. I don't know what to tell you then. just dont give up.

[Riko]

Well, I did some shooting this morning with my WE Scar and the problems of the last 2 days seem gone.
What I did is I lubed all parts very very good with silicone oil and that seem to do the trick
I have no longer a building up of bb's in the inner barrel.
So, so far so good.

The pin that holds the roller on my hammer is holding due to locktite, but its getting lose I see now...so I will have to upgrade the whole hammer with some Ra Tech parts.

I am shooting with stock hop up and a 500mm RA Tech inner barrel. The bb's: G&G .02g, 5.95

The Npas is set to highest fps (but I am not yet able to do a chrono....

Later on I will use some grease for the bolt system, cause silicon oil seems to dry up fast in those areas.
I would use "Birchwood Casey universal gun grease" that should be sufficient for that bolt area I suppose?


But my new issue: I see splinters of bb's after I shoot.
Than I switched to the green cybergun bb's (lesser quality) and also with those I saw green splinters.
So both bb's leave splinters in my gun.

Here are some pics, splinters on the valve, at the top of the mag, in the lower receiver where the magtop is.


At the Hop up.



Is this abnormal or shouldn't I worry as long as I clean my gun after each use?

And would a cleaning kit to clean inner barrels be a good thing, like this one?
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/accessori...etal-case.html


Or is that just a waist of money?

Thx!!!!

[Ross]

2 things that cause the bbs to chop are low quality or light weight bbs, and aftermarket magazines. I recommend using heavier bbs. like .28s. For higher fps you should be using heavier bbs. if you adjust your npas for 300 or something then, .2s would be ok.

Most likely your magazines were the magazines that were made to fit the we m4 and we scar and not the ones that were made specifically for the we scar. Not to worry, there is an apparent solution. I have done it myself recently but have not fired enough rounds to see if it worked yet.

http://www.airsoftgiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7684

In summary your bbs are being sliced before exiting the barrel. I theorize this cuts up your hop up too. The lips of the magazine that feed the bbs do not insert high enough into the gun and on their way out make contact with the edge of the brass tube. It's a real mess and affects accuracy. The link above can explain it much better than I can.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Ross

2 things that cause the bbs to chop are low quality or light weight bbs, and aftermarket magazines. I recommend using heavier bbs. like .28s. For higher fps you should be using heavier bbs. if you adjust your npas for 300 or something then, .2s would be ok.

Most likely your magazines were the magazines that were made to fit the we m4 and we scar and not the ones that were made specifically for the we scar. Not to worry, there is an apparent solution. I have done it myself recently but have not fired enough rounds to see if it worked yet.

http://www.airsoftgiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7684

In summary your bbs are being sliced before exiting the barrel. I theorize this cuts up your hop up too. The lips of the magazine that feed the bbs do not insert high enough into the gun and on their way out make contact with the edge of the brass tube. It's a real mess and affects accuracy. The link above can explain it much better than I can.

Wow, thx for advice, BUT I thought that using a smaller bb, would get your fps higher
.20 would get higher fps than .28
But a bigger bb would be more stable.

Either all those reviewers and posters in all those topics got it wrong, or you are the only one that has it right
But smaller is faster.
And my aim is to get an fps as high as possible
I just tested, and my highest was 425 fps with the npas on the max, using .20 G&G bb's.
I know there is a method to really crank up the fps by shortening the Npas system but that is for later.
I assume if there are better bb's than G&G out there and if I clean my barrel, I would win some fps.

I think you confuse speed with distance, somehow a heavier bb would travel more far, but isnt as fast as a smaller bb....
Look here: http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2158

So I wanted to know what bb's you are using? since you have no splinter issue it seems.

Like I said, I use G&G .02 bb's.
They are Taiwanese, and suppose to be perfect 5.95.
Salesmen from RA Tech advised me Taiwan made bb's especially G&G.
And based on user reviews, these seem very good indeed.

But my seller said that he meanwhile tested a WE, and Xtreme Precision bb's were the best of the ones he had.

But dunno if a change in bb's would solve my splinter issue, but if the fps gets higher by using that, than thats nice



About the mag, okay, thats the first time I heard of a mag especially made for WE Scar....
Would like to see some official info about that.
But your topic about the credit card solution is FTW!
Thx a lot for that mate!

I will try to fix that ASAP