What I want in a gun.

[blackjack21]

Is it possible to just specify what performance you want in a gun, set a price and pay a gun doc to meet those specs?

My biggest frustration with this game is the general lack of metrics on performance and reliability of the guns.

What I want to do is set a list of performance requirements, get a price, pay someone to give me a gun that meets those specs and go home. What don’t want to do is stare at a list of upgrades, in some insanely priced DMR build with no verifiable way to know what that actually means in terms of absolute performance.

Frankly I don’t care what is put into the gun, what I want to know is what can the gun actually do and how long the gun can do it before it needs parts replacement.

Am I insane in thinking this way?

[ShelledPants]

That's actually a more logical way of approaching gun docs/builders.

Keep in mind a reasonable approach to upgrades and wear time, some guns break out the gate with something that was unforeseeable, other stock guns will run tens of thousands of rounds without breaking.

Contact gundocs in your area (or wait for the PM's from this thread) and set our with your expectations and price range. I'm sure you'll be happy with the result.

[Stealth]

I wish more people were like you.

We get a lot of "I want it to be a lazer" and "good trigger response" but that's really quite subjective and not useful when trying to quantify performance.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by Stealth

I wish more people were like you.

We get a lot of "I want it to be a lazer" and "good trigger response" but that's really quite subjective and not useful when trying to quantify performance.

Just sell them a P* or PTW.

[K3vX]

You're part of a nearly extinct species of people called "pragmatic", or "rational".

They possess a set of skills I'm trying to master everyday. Don't change.

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by BioRage

Just sell them a P* or PTW.

I'm surprised you didn't say GBBR or Daytona.

c wat i did ther?

But seriously though, not everybody wants to:
1) Spend over $1400
2) Carry a tank of compressed air around
3) All of the above.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by blackjack21

Is it possible to just specify what performance you want in a gun, set a price and pay a gun doc to meet those specs?

My biggest frustration with this game is the general lack of metrics on performance and reliability of the guns.

What I want to do is set a list of performance requirements, get a price, pay someone to give me a gun that meets those specs and go home. What don’t want to do is stare at a list of upgrades, in some insanely priced DMR build with no verifiable way to know what that actually means in terms of absolute performance.

Frankly I don’t care what is put into the gun, what I want to know is what can the gun actually do and how long the gun can do it before it needs parts replacement.

Am I insane in thinking this way?

It is not an unreasonable way to approach things. Keep in mind some peoples expectations of performance are unreasonable. Also when upgrading performance sometimes a large investment is required to meet the performance you want.

May I ask what your requirements are?

[lurkingknight]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

It is not an unreasonable way to approach things. Keep in mind some peoples expectations of performance are unreasonable. Also when upgrading performance sometimes a large investment is required to meet the performance you want.

May I ask what your requirements are?

this.


I've had people inquire with unreasonable expectations for a build.. like wanting dsg like trigger response, but low rps without a computerized mosfet.. cause they don't want to spend the money. Sorry.. can't do it.

Then I've had people see my guns and how they perform on the field and ask me how to make theirs like that... and then I tell them and watch their eyes glaze over.

Part of the problem is education on what can and cant' be done with which parts that cost what money. A fair number of people automatically assume you use the most expensive bits, or that those expensive bits have the most performance. Not always the case... but any attempt to educate them otherwise results in glazed over eyes or outright disbelief.

But I have a feeling it's hard to quantify because parts can be so horribly random in terms of quality, even in the same brand, on top of manufacturing tolerances between brands for the same parts. Hard to guarantee anything when gears can randomly shred themselves.

[MADDOG]

Originally Posted by lurkingknight

this.


A fair number of people automatically assume you use the most expensive bits, or that those expensive bits have the most performance. Not always the case... but any attempt to educate them otherwise results in glazed over eyes or outright disbelief.

You have got that right, you can take a cheap ass gun, upgrade the right parts and voila your "lazer" with great trigger response.

I have a all plastic (Except the mechbox) Lancer Tactical Railed AKSU I bought for $114 to see if I could get it to perform as well as my "TM beat to shit AK workhorse"

I did it and it works awesome with a little reinforcement from a AFG to stabilize the body.

Although more often than not it comes down to if you are a skilled shooter in the first place, gun be damned. If I can play competitively with the cheapest gun, a good high C battery, a spring, hop up and motor change it might be more than just the upgrades that keeps you in the game

[blackjack21]

Here is my list. If the specs are not realistic i can adjust...

9/10 hits on an 8 inch target at 200 feet (vice down gun, indoor condition's, using .3g bb wieght.) I buy preimum BBs (green devils here in alberta) but am not interested in a gun that can only achieve accuracy with very exotic or hard to find BBs.

Max of 410 fps with .2g bbs (field limit)

Semi and full auto but low ROF on full auto is great. 10-20 rps is perfect as far as i am concerned.

The gun must be reasonably compact (no 4 foot SVDs with 600mm barrels), a standard M4 length gun, (a bull pup would be nice and might give extra length for a longer barrel if needed.)

I have my own optic, but the gun must run a long top rail.

M4 mag compatibility would be nice.

Reliability, I know this is a hard metric to specify but I really want a gun that does not fall apart in it's first game. Can you provide a warranty?

Long term maintainability, the gun must run with components that can be replaced without grinding, or extensive mods to make them fit the parts must be fairly commonly available on the air-soft market.

A look that is different form the standard M4 would be nice.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by blackjack21

Here is my list. If the specs are not realistic i can adjust...

9/10 hits on an 8 inch target at 200 feet (vice down gun, indoor condition's, using .3g bb wieght.) I buy preimum BBs (green devils here in alberta) but am not interested in a gun that can only achieve accuracy with very exotic or hard to find BBs.

Max of 410 fps with .2g bbs (field limit)

Semi and full auto but low ROF on full auto is great. 10-20 rps is perfect as far as i am concerned.

The gun must be reasonably compact (no 4 foot SVDs with 600mm barrels), a standard M4 length gun, (a bull pup would be nice and might give extra length for a longer barrel if needed.)

I have my own optic, but the gun must run a long top rail.

M4 mag compatibility would be nice.

Reliability, I know this is a hard metric to specify but I really want a gun that does not fall apart in it's first game. Can you provide a warranty?

Long term maintainability, the gun must run with components that can be replaced without grinding, or extensive mods to make them fit the parts must be fairly commonly available on the air-soft market.

A look that is different form the standard M4 would be nice.

Your requirements are not really that high at all. The only thing that can't be controlled is durability of parts. Most parts "should" last you multiple seasons, but as they are mass produced any part could have a catastrophic failure on the get go. Decent accuracy at that range in not difficult.

Do you have an aeg already or are you trying to build from scratch?

[blackjack21]

I have had the worst AEG luck known to man. I have a good solid CQB gun I dont F with. After a ton of green and 3 aegs I finally have a an RPK I really like, but this year our field is outlawing full auto for most games. I really don't want to haul and over sized AK if I can only semi with it. So I am on the look out for a new field gun.

If My requirements are too easy then I have no trouble increasing them. How about 6 inch target at 300 feet ....

Seriously I have not seen many guns that can actually hit an 8 inch diameter target with near complete reliability at 200 feet. (that's roughly a head sized not torso sized target), but maybe I don't get out much... LOL.

[lurkingknight]

I think the most difficult thing atm is proving 9/10 hits on 8" target at 200ft. People claim they've done it, but no scientific comparison/test has been carried out in a completely controlled environment.

You're most definitely looking at an r-hop to get that imo. I just don't know how close or how much better than that requirement it will be since it hasn't been measured.

[blackjack21]

Lurking I would be willing to trust a video.

Show say 100 bbs shot, with 90+ hitting...

This is another thing that bugs me, you need a range to be a decent gun doc. How else can you tell if your mods are working?

As for Base Gun I am flexible. I just want a reasonably compact weapon, was thinking the FN2000, but am not sure about the guns durability internally or externally.

[wind_comm]

Originally Posted by blackjack21

Here is my list. If the specs are not realistic i can adjust...

9/10 hits on an 8 inch target at 200 feet (vice down gun, indoor condition's, using .3g bb wieght.) I buy preimum BBs (green devils here in alberta) but am not interested in a gun that can only achieve accuracy with very exotic or hard to find BBs.

Max of 410 fps with .2g bbs (field limit)

Semi and full auto but low ROF on full auto is great. 10-20 rps is perfect as far as i am concerned.

The gun must be reasonably compact (no 4 foot SVDs with 600mm barrels), a standard M4 length gun, (a bull pup would be nice and might give extra length for a longer barrel if needed.)

I have my own optic, but the gun must run a long top rail.

M4 mag compatibility would be nice.

Reliability, I know this is a hard metric to specify but I really want a gun that does not fall apart in it's first game. Can you provide a warranty?

Long term maintainability, the gun must run with components that can be replaced without grinding, or extensive mods to make them fit the parts must be fairly commonly available on the air-soft market.

A look that is different form the standard M4 would be nice.

you basically just described my M4.