Airsoft in Tactical Gear Magazine

[CDN_Stalker]

The latest issue of this magazine (by far my favourite, has gear, tactics, techniques and such in it, as opposed to Soldier of Fortune or SWAT........ which I tend to buy a fair bit as well, but sometimes won't due to lacklustre a issue that doesn't make me want to spend the $6.99).

The article, Reality Based Training Saves Lives, spends most of it's time (on the gear side of things) going over airsoft, and they focus on the Systema PTW (Professional Training Weapon), which in itself is a VERY sweet setup!!! As close to the real deal that airsoft can get.

http://www.ez-co.com/Rpt_SystemaA3/01.asp

[thePiRaTE!!]

also see www.zshot.com

[Tom_Keeler]

What a gorgeous gun... it's nice to see that Airsoft is getting better exposure as a training gun. I'd say that it'd make banning airsoft significantly harder if PD's had them as trainers.

[FOX_111]

The thing is, PD don't train that much, especially with long guns.
They do more reange time than rehersal.

[Soulja]

Originally Posted by FOX_111

The thing is, PD don't train that much, especially with long guns.
They do more reange time than rehersal.

Which police department are you talking about? Do you have experience with said police department, or are you just speaking out of your ass?

[CDN_Stalker]

Play nice boys!

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted by Soulja

Which police department are you talking about? Do you have experience with said police department, or are you just speaking out of your ass?

Umm... he's an actual PD officer...

[PTE. Pyle]

Originally Posted by FOX_111

The thing is, PD don't train that much, especially with long guns.
They do more reange time than rehersal.

Hes right. my uncle has been with vpd for the better part of 30 years. I have spent alot of time talking to him about the training they do and for the most part the mainly do range drills and such. simple room clearing activities but nothing to extensive. and as such even durring his time with the vpd ert team, verry few times did he use a long rifle in training. they tend to perfer the H&K MP5 series, or pistols.

[Quaff]

You wont see many law enforcement agencies using airsoft, if any at all. There are far better products out there for training use, like Simunition, which allows them to use their own service weapons (with a minor alteration to ensure that real bullets can not accidentally get mixed in).

[MadMax]

When I took my PAL course, the teacher remarked that policemen are regularly outshot by civvies in shooting competition. A lot of police work is paperwork. While there are highly trained special officers with very strong shooting skills, it seems that the majority of police are able to handle a firearm safely, but aren't exactly expert shooters.

Perhaps it's a function of not having to actually fire in the field very often which might speak well of society in general. If officers were regularly outshot or regularly shot bystanders a much greater emphasis might be placed on situational training.

[Mysteryfish]

that review mentioned that systema has (possibly?) an MP5 in the works...

That'd be super awesome.

An MP5 with all the fun features.

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by Quaff

You wont see many law enforcement agencies using airsoft, if any at all. There are far better products out there for training use, like Simunition, which allows them to use their own service weapons (with a minor alteration to ensure that real bullets can not accidentally get mixed in).

Cost. They can use their own guns, but would have to have the actions, barrels, etc. all replaced to fire the Simunition, hence the added cost of LOTS of money. Airsoft is dirt cheap, as is the ammo for them. Got this above info from the article, and it makes perfect sense.

And Fox111 is a security guard, not a cop, unless he made it into cop training since I last talked to him.

EDIT: Gonna add in the blurb regarding why Simuntion isn't for every department and why airsoft is better:

"Simunitions are real firearms that have been converted to fire sub-calibre marking cartridges. Simunitions offer much greater realism and flexibility, but the rounds can be costly, and the conversion kits are not currently available for all weapons and calibers."

Goes on to say this, which we all know already, and is an extremely good reason WHY airsoft is a better training aid for police departments:

"Airsoft manufacturers have replicated every popular handgun and rifle. Through use of high tech plastic polymer technology and comuter aided design, manufacturers have created Airsoft guns in intricate detail. The cost of the average high quality Airsoft gun is $75 to $200, and the ammunition runs about $20 for 6,000 BBs. The combination of realism, safety and low cost has made Airsoft guns appealing alternatives to other products. However, they are made of lightweight aluminum and plastic, so they're fragile and not as durable as real weapons."

Aside from his getting the metal type wrong, he's right on the money. If your department uses Beretta 92s, buy a bunch of Beretta 92 airsoft guns. If your department uses Glock 22s in .40 S&W, buy a bunch of airsoft Glock 17s. If they are issued Glock 23s in .40S&W, buy a bunch of airsoft Glock 19s (In both cases, full sized and compact are the exact same physical size, regardless of the 9mm and .40 S&W differences). From there, the author leads into the paragraphs regarding the Systema PTW.

[FOX_111]

And Fox111 is a security guard, not a cop, unless he made it into cop training since I last talked to him

Im not a secury guard anymore :wink:

I happend to work with lot of police officer and I know a bunch personnaly. So no, they don't train except for pistol and shotguns at the range. Most of them don't even know how to clear a room properly except for the trainning they got at Nicolet. (police institute).

[CDN_Stalker]

Nuff said Fox, glad you came in to clear it up. On all that you said of course. I can't see many Canadian police departments doing any real training with airsoft/Simunition/etc. Too traditional up here, and unless you patrol Toronto, little need to train in drawing a gun anyways. Which in my opinion is a mistake, but who will listen to me anyways. Is all to bad, in my opinion police depatments should put themselves through airsoft training with airsoft players. Why? Because the article I posted emphasises force-on-force training to condition their officers for real world shoot outs. Airsofters, by choice, engage in force-on-force engagements anyways, so chances are, you put a range trained officer up against a skilled airsofter with the same weapons in any environment, the airsofter will always win because it's what they are used to doing. Worst criminal for a police officer to go up against would be a vet of a war (obviously) but a regular airsofter will be more used to force-on-force and actually shooting someone than the cop will.

Cops need better funding, and more emphasis on REAL training, including shooting and being shot by making mistakes.

[FOX_111]

I agree with you. But I must add that we don't live in the far west. Or should I say, in the US. Violent confrontation involving guns is not very common. Granted, when it happend, it's best to have a well trainned officer to deal with it. But due to the low % of weapon confontation, they won't allow a budjet to train officer in this.

From a director point of view, SWAT teams are there to deal with that shit, so it's cheaper to train them only.

When I look at the statistic of violent crime involving firearms, it's pretty stable too. So we won't see that changing soon.