AK vs M4 (AR)

[Einstein]

EDIT:

I decided to readjust the initial post. After having searched the internet far and wide, I have found no satisfactory answers to the great debate AK vs AR. I am not looking for the answer to this question, because we all know the best platforms depends on the set of criteria's someone has set out for themselves. Thus, I am looking for FACTS, OPINIONS and EXPERIENCES related to both platforms. Talk about everything: internals, externals, accessories, upgrades, brands, quality, price, game play, aesthetics, gear, ergonomics, manipulations, for beginner players, for experienced players etc. I will be following this thread closely and responding posts.

PRE EDIT:

Saturday I played a game and my friend let me run a couple of rounds with his sniper rifle. It was at this moment I realized how important precision is. I was usually the kind of guy to get close to the target, throw down a burst before the enemy spotted me and hope my initial burst hit the target. Now from my experience with said friends sniper, I'm not a terrible shot. I believe with the right gun and a little love I can get take the enemy out 99% of the time with 3 shots. Me and a friend are looking to make a kit to run together, we are hesitating between the LCT TX-M or the VFC HK416. I'm more familiar with AK's, he's more familiar with AR's.

So far we've agreed on 2 thing, we both prefer the reloads on the AR and the AK looks better.

On my side I find the AK to be an easy gun to work inside, the long stick batteries sure are fun, and I've seen great performances from both bases.

My question for you is: in your personal experiences what are the pros and cons of each platform? Externally, internally, how it affects your gear, does it affect your play-style, teching experience; the more details the better.

My goal is to choose the better base for me. As i mentioned above, I looking for something with a solid effective range and precision.

I know this post is over done and their are already a lot of threads about this, but none of them satisfied all my questions.

Write all your experiences with your airsofts, no matter how small the details. I will look this thread up regularly to interact with you guys.

Thanks a lot!

[Ricochet]

The only reason to run an AK is because you personally like the platform. AR is more ergonomic, modern and has more aftermarket parts for it, Airsoft and real-steel. It’s easier to work on, upgrade and has hundreds more variants and ways to customize it.

The M4 isn’t my favourite gun personally, but I run it because of the advantages. “AR MASTER-RACE!”

[Einstein]

Here are some of my observations

The AK:

pros:

-I find AK's to be generally more solid
-The variants of the AK family are less similar than the variants of the AR family, thus I feel like a unique look is easier to pull off
-To me the AK is more visually pleasing
-Assembling and disassembling an AK is easy (I must confess, I have never opened an M4)
-The V3 gearbox has a better shell and a motor cage, this leads to a good protection for your internals.
-At games, the AK is very easy to repair on the field if you have a spare gearbox and a screwdriver. Just take the handle off, the selector switch, unscrew the hop-up to slide it forward and swap the gearbox (In all of my AK’s, the hop-up had a block in front of them that could be removed by hand which allowed to slide the hop-up unit far enough to free the gear box).
-I like the release for the mags. Being able to press the release mechanism at the same time as taking out the mag and doing this with one hand comes more natural to me than with the AR where you need to press the release button with your trigger finger and catch the mag with the other hand.
-You can have the battery in the stock or under the dust cover. This is great as both the dust cover and ak stock usually accept bigger batteries than AR's. And when you have a folding or retractable stock you don’t have to fight with the god awful front rail batteries or battery PEQ boxes (which i hate personally)
-AK's seem to have a better fps when compared with an AR with the same length and spring. This translates to less strain on your gearbox for the same output.
-I find AK hop-ups easier to adjust and you can lock em down with the screw.
-I like the hold on an AK, even without a foregrip.
-Since the AK is so widespread, the number of looks you can pull off are varied and numerous: military, insurgent, militia, pirate…

Cons:

-Reloading at night is terrible with an AK. This problem is helped by equipping a frontal red light to your head gear.
-The V3 is prone to semi lock-ups which means your semi automatic rate of fire is cut down due -to the fact that you need to make sure you gearbox has completed its cycle.
-Cheap AK are almost always wobbly.
-When laying down, the long curved mags make it hard to aim properly.
-The mags take a lot of space.
-Optics are harder to use because of the higher rails and bad cheek weld.
-The rail space doesn’t extend close enough to the magwell, I like to grip my gun very closely to the mag which means accessories like grips, lights etc. require me to take an uncomfortable grip.
-Most milsim games will not allow AK’s in NATO teams, thus you can’t rock the popular and battle proven multicam and the latest plate carrier with your AK during realistic milsim events.

Non-issues:

-Reload speed. When you can see your airsoft, i find that reloading speed with the AK to be a non-issue, with practice i've become only fractions of seconds slower than most of my AR wielding friends.
-Rail space is a non-issue now due to the vast mods and attachments that are now available for the AK

These were the observations I’ve made from playing with 4 different AK’s in my 4 years in airsoft.

[Einstein]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

It’s easier to work on, upgrade and has hundreds more variants and ways to customize it.

Ricochet, if you'd like, could you elaborate on this? I've never worked on the AR. And when you say more customization's do you just mean accessories or unique customs only available for the AR?

[hinoobies]

Just choose which looks better to you. You're comparing the #1 and #2 most popular platforms. Both are going to have tons of aftermarket parts and both will have good/bad choices. You're better off comparing brands than platforms at this point. Performance/Ease of modification/Repairs will vary greater across brands than platforms in the comparison you're asking for.

From your 2 options , I would choose the VFC HK416

[xevous]

Some of these advantages/problems as with choosing the platforms are entirely preferential. Or could be overcome with training/practice.

I have 2 fully build Siegetek/BTC guns one AK and one AR. And I love my AK more but the AR has some objective benefits to it. AR reloads will always be faster because the mechanism reloading the gun is a lot less complex. With ARs I can usually do a sub-2 second reload with AKs it always hovers above 2.5. Rocking the mag in is not as fast as a straight mag insert. There's no real way around that, but in game it makes little difference. As for reloading in the dark, that sounds like a training and skills problem. I've had no problems reloading my AK in the dark and if you need a light to reload I suggest more practice vs a whole debate.

You can pull off a tonne of looks with the AR as with an AK. So I don't see how that's an advantage or disadvantage. For ARs you have any variety of standard issue looks, competition, ect. Same with AKs really. But the nature of the market means since there are more ARs there will always be more AR parts. This is especially true in Canada for the real steel market as AKs are prohibited so getting real AK parts in Canada is significantly more limited than AR. But going past that you have many brands like Zenitco, MWI, Krebs, DDI, SLR Rifleworks, Ect.

I have no idea what milsims are run in Quebec but in Ontario. It's usually a Green v. Tan game or a Camo v. Civvie game. Rifle platform doesn't matter. For games like MSW sure but I have yet to see that in Ontario at least.

A lot of the internal issues you're discribing sounds like you're unfamiliar with tech work and with platforms as a whole. Comparing 2 of what I would consider the highest quality platforms LCT for AKs and VFC for ARs each again has differences but it's not at all like the ones discribed above. V3s in AKs will always have shittier triggers unless you put something like a BTC Chimera in them, but they don't have a larger tendancy to lock up vs a v2 otherwise. Also if you're going all out with a build semi-lock should be a non issue as both platforms with proper builds will not have that problem. FPS issues are moot because that's not a problem with v2s and v3s if the orings and airseal components (which are the SAME) seal properly.

ARs are better for batteries hands down. Larger variety of stocks = more options for batts. Also less shit in the way in a buffer tube vs an AK. For AKs if you have a good sized 11.1v in there, pretty much not a good idea to pull the charging handle to adjust the hop. Field repairs with ARs are also easier because you can just change the lower between VFCs.

V3 motor grips can also have problems if you don't have a tight pistol grip on the AK as the wobbling of the grip will overtime loosen the motor cage. It's a non issue on a properly fitting grip though. ARs can have problems with motor alignment with cheap/bad grips but again a non-issue if you have a proper grip. Both platforms (Vfc and LCT) have excellent gearboxes.

I'm just not really sure what you are trying to get at with your post....

Pick whatever one you like better. Both the LCT and the VFC are fantastic and you can get excellent accuracy with both with the proper barrel group and internal build.

In terms of kit, less stuff will fit AK magazines but I built my loadout around using both my AK and AR so I have not problem there. I find teching both to be pretty even.

[Datawraith]

^ listen to this guy. Everybody I hang with knows I really dislike AKs due to weight, bulk, and ergonomics, but he (xevous) managed to build one that I actually really like (due to the internal and external parts he used and his own tech skills). I still wouldn't pick it over my AR though :P

My advice is to go out and find people with those platforms and see if they'll let you try doing rifle manipulations with both platforms. Practice sighting in from various positions (snapping up from low ready, dynamic shooting positions), moving around with the rifle shouldered and off shoulder, shoulder transitions, target transitions, fire control manipulation, etc. Basically everything that you would do in game. From there, you should get a decent idea of which platform naturally suits your body more and you should go with that platform. Unless you're in it for the looks. Then get whichever one floats your aesthetic boat.

And yes, VFC for ARs, LCT for AKs. Don't go with anything else. It's well worth the added cost.

[Drakker]

The only real advantage of AKs over ARs in the airsoft world is the stock reliability and accuracy. Its a solid platform, and even the cheap ones are mostly well built, with a lot less wobble than equivalently priced ARs. The V3 gearbox is a lot more reliable and durable. It doesn't take a lot of work to get an airsoft AK to shoot laser beams. If you don't mind the extra effort, you an get an AR to shoot as well as an AK, so in the end, it doesn't really matter which one you pick... but, you know... an AR will never look as good as an AK.

[Einstein]

Originally Posted by xevous

I'm just not really sure what you are trying to get at with your post....

This post serves to deepen the knowledge on the 2 most popular platforms in airsoft. But I want more than just stats. There are many things that can be learned only through numerous hours of playing.

I've run 4 years with the AK platform from 3 different brands. I've done my own maintenance and my own mods, nothing to complex though (I've never really done repairs).

the post here make it obvious that each experience is very unique no matter the gun, this on it's own says a great deal. The thread also seems to point out an definitive advantage when it comes to ergonomics and reloading with the AR, albeit barely significant, especially in airsoft.

I've never had an AR. Some people I'm sure never had an AK. This post are for people like me who are faced with a decision of maybe going towards the unknown. Obviously most of us will search the internet for information. most of what I found surfing the web was shallow answers or underdeveloped points.

I'm using the forum to remedy this. As I said I will be following this post closely and asking more questions, asking for elaboration etc.

Now I started the thread by giving my personal guideline. I'm more focused on having precision at good range. Some people might be looking for the best quality/cost relation. Others might want the most reliable airsoft they can get. This is why I said to go in as much details as you'd like. I'm hoping this thread won't only serve me.

[Einstein]

Thank you for the complete answer xevous, It was very helpful.

[Einstein]

Originally Posted by Datawraith

Everybody I hang with knows I really dislike AKs due to weight, bulk, and ergonomics, but he (xevous) managed to build one that I actually really like (due to the internal and external parts he used and his own tech skills). I still wouldn't pick it over my AR though :P

Can you explain what he did to the AK for you to like it? maybe even link a picture. And why do you still prefer your AR? Even if your answer is "I like it better due to how it looks" that is still relevant to me and other can draw conclusions form it.

Originally Posted by Datawraith

My advice is to go out and find people with those platforms and see if they'll let you try doing rifle manipulations with both platforms. Practice sighting in from various positions (snapping up from low ready, dynamic shooting positions), moving around with the rifle shouldered and off shoulder, shoulder transitions, target transitions, fire control manipulation, etc. Basically everything that you would do in game.

Thanks for this. I've never really been satisfied with simply holding a gun at the shop.

[Einstein]

Originally Posted by Drakker

The only real advantage of AKs over ARs in the airsoft world is the stock reliability and accuracy.

sorry if I'm slow, but when you say stock reliability do you mean the actual stock of the gun or the reliability of the gun when its out of the box?

Originally Posted by Drakker

The V3 gearbox is a lot more reliable and durable. It doesn't take a lot of work to get an airsoft AK to shoot laser beams.

Do you happen to know why the V3 gearbox is more reliable and durable? and does this statement only apply to stock gearboxes?
You seem to state that AK's are easier/cheaper to make increase the performance, why?
When comparing the absolute best V2 and V3, does one version still have an edge on the other?

[SuperCriollo]

I'd trust more a steel built AK like a LCT to survive a nasty fall as opposed to a VFC m4 with its casted body and plethora of weak points (inherent to all AR AEGs)
AKs for the same price point simply tend to be more solid when it comes to construction.

Other than that it pretty much comes down to personal preference.

[Jolly_Green]

AK vs AR...

Quick and dirty answer, if you've narrowed it down to VFC and LCT for your choices then you really wont be disappointed in either. They are top of the line in respects to each platform and have the same performance potential imo.

Personal experience. Ive been running LCT AK's now for 2 years, I ran an upgraded King Arms M16 prior to that. I have a VFC SCAR-L which I love but its not fair performance comparison to my LCT as it hasn't been given the same attention in regards to upgrades. So the comparison will be made between the King Arms and LCT, both of which are upgraded internally.

In regards to upgrades, M4 has way more parts available, but AK ive found to be easier and cheaper to upgrade to my standard. Both systems in my experience have the same performance potential though. A good quality barrel and hop up on my LCT has yielded great results and satisfied my performance needs for a long time. That being said my old M16 shot fantastic as well, I just needed to spend a little more time and money getting it to that point.

As far as gear and kit wise its kinda hard to compare. If you build a western themed kit for AK its gonna be a little trickier. Mags are and bigger and bulkier and your gonna spend more getting plate carriers and chest rigs intended for M4 platforms to work with your AK kit, not impossible by any means but just not ideal. It goes the opposite way though as well. If your kit is russian themed you're gonna find everything is designed to work with AK and it will be easy to set up a kit, M4 can work but like I said before it wont be ideal. I wouldn't worry too much in this respect though, its by no means a deal breaker for either system.

Handling and ergo differences are minimal imo. Ak is heavier, mag changes are slower, and the base versions are not as ergonomic as M4. It wont take long though running the AK every weekend before you get used to it and get over the quirks of the platform. That being said though it you get down to the nitty gritty M4 is faster and more ergonomic.

If your going balls out on your build, I would go for the platform that gives you the look and feel you want. From what it sounds like your gonna spend the money on upgrades and your building a whole new kit around it so really it comes down to what what makes you feel the most tacticool when your out on the field.

[Datawraith]

Originally Posted by Einstein

Can you explain what he did to the AK for you to like it? maybe even link a picture. And why do you still prefer your AR? Even if your answer is "I like it better due to how it looks" that is still relevant to me and other can draw conclusions form it.

Uhhh, it's not my gun nor my Instagram. If you want to know everything about it, you'd best message xevous himself. It's a sweeeeeet gat.

I personally don't like AKs at all. The ergonomics suck; the grip angle is weird, the iron sights are garbage, you can't C-clamp if you use the iron sights because it'll block your entire sight picture, the fire selector is kind of ridiculous to use, and so forth).

AKs are heavy, especially the good models (Real Sword, LCT) because they are made of steel whereas ARs tend to be an aluminum alloy so they are much lighter, and they feel bulkier than ARs to me.

Due to these, I find myself much faster with an AR; I point much more naturally so I'm faster at shooting, transitioning, and manipulating my rifle.

I also prefer how my AR looks with a real MLOK rail (xevous' AK has a real MLOK rail too, which is partially why I like it so much), and just how sleek it is. It's literally a boomstick.

As other users have mentioned, that might be a matter of training and being used to the controls. But I'm an AR guy through and through. If you want light, sleek, and ergonomic, the AR's your platform.