TM P226 vs KJ P226

sdkfz234 · March 29th, 2006, 17:48

I'm trying to decide which to get, either the TM or the KJ P226. I know that with the TM, I don't need to worry about reliability or performance. However, since I would rather have a full metal version, the KJ is much more appealing especially given how the KJ is actually price lower than the TM version from most retailers.

The "problem" is that I only use duster and not propane. The review that I also found here suggests that duster would not be sufficient for the KJ P226, at least in stock form.

My questions are:

1. Can anyone else confirm that the KJ will not function properly when using duster?

2. Assuming that question is confirmed, would any of the huge number of upgrade parts available for the TM P226 be able to get the KJ P226 functioning properly? It doesn't have to shoot at over 300fps, but it should at least be able to shoot one full magazine.

Worst case scenario (not really worst, just more expensive), would be to buy the TM P226 and the G&P metal slide and frame kit.

Thanks for your comments.

Stealth · March 29th, 2006, 18:20

I was faced with a similar decision as well, but I reasoned it out to as follows:

Price: KJW and TM are equal in price. However, you get a FMU kit with the KJW, and even though it doesn't have trademarks, it is still a major plus. If you were to get the FMU kit separately, then expect to pay at least another 100-150. The G&P kit isn't top notch, but it serves the purpose well.

Performance: KJW rips the design from TM, literally. Most, if not all, the internal pieces are interchangable. Performance wise it will be similar. However, the TM mags do not fit the KJW. If you dig up Madmax's thread on KJW fill valves, you will see that they don't fill up very well either. Again, this relates back to the price. Pay more and get more shots per mag, or just carry around a can and fill it up out on the field, or even buy another mag to boot.

Reliability: Luck of the draw on this one. With TM, you're guaranteed a working gun that will last you for years as long as you don't tamper with it. With KJW, you may need to fiddle around with certain things before you get it to work perfectly.

As for your duster vs propane concern, it is a moot point. The TM with a FMU kit will not function very well if you were to use duster as the propellent. You would need to change the valve, and strengthen the hammer spring. Even then, duster may not provide enough power to cycle the slide properly during rapid fire.

dead_aim · March 29th, 2006, 18:32

there is a kjw 226 with full trademarks now...

but as for duster on an upgraded tm i would say its works, but not well...i found that it didnt cycle as fast and did have enough power to lock the slide and theres no more ammo...

i have a tm 4.3 fmu with a p226 enhance recoil spring(it fits.)

Jackals · March 29th, 2006, 18:33

From personal experince with my old KJ M9 which was full metal I found it shot great on propane with no problems, however Duster is no where near strong enough to push out a bb at any decent FPS.

I have the TM P226 and absoultly love it, I would recommend it over any other GBB i have owned. However and if Stalker see this thread, he will agree, once you start screwing around with a GBB you open a huge can of worms. If you do get a TM one and put a metal slide, you will still need to use propane to get the bb out, its the weight of the slide that the duster cant move very well.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents for ya.

Rumpel Felt · March 29th, 2006, 21:47

I was just faced with the same decision.

This is totally out of the ordinary for me, but I didn't choose the KJW with trademarks though I easily could have. Normally I would consider anyone out there who buys a TM gun with another one out there that is full metal a complete fool, but this time I decided to find out for myself if there was anything to be had with an upgraded TM you would not get with the KJW.....GBB wise. AEG wise it's painfully obvious TM is a complete rip off.

I absouluty hate TM so it pained me to do it but I ordered one. However the only reason I did it was to have the Guarder aluminum body and various other upgrades and a VFC steel barrel, internally threded with adaptor. When it gets to me (just ordered it, have to wait) the discusting TM plastic parts will be torn off and I will never have to have the shame in holding what to me is a laughable toy. I will designate it as a Guarder P226 as to make sure TM gets no undeserved credit. I feel like a fool paying what I did for what will be mostly Gaurder and VFC. I only did this because i know what all the main parts are made of now, I wanted a project gun and thought I'd see if it was any better. Fuck, now that I think of it, I should have gotten the KJw, sold the metal body and gotten the Guarder one. FUCK, I fucking hate TM with their god damn plastic.

Anyway, I still recommend you make the smart choice and get KJW.

sdkfz234 · March 30th, 2006, 20:59

Thanks for all the feedback, I definitely will be considering the KJ over the TM. I don't think any reliability/quality issues will be of much relevance, especially if I decide to get some upgrade parts in the future.

It's a shame that the better quality TM mag won't work with the KJ P226. It'd be nice if all you had to do was sand down the magazine a bit, maybe repaint it if you cared about looks. I don't think I'd want to spend $70 to see if it'd actually work.

Now to wait until the trademarked KJ P226 starts showing up...

Thanks again

Rumpel Felt · March 30th, 2006, 21:24

But TM mags do work. Someone tested them and said they are fine. The true shame is TM still makes plastic guns.

You just need to get someone to order the trade marked one in.

kdogg · March 30th, 2006, 21:30

From my understanding and don't quote me, but TM HAS to make plastic guns. Someone as a So-Cal airosoft shop told me it was a legal issues and that in Japan, replica guns can't be sold with metal bodies.

Ever noticed all the HK, Tawain, etc guns are metal and all the jap ones are mostly plastic? Ever seen a Jap gun with a metal body or metal slide stock?

The Saint · March 30th, 2006, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdogg

From my understanding and don't quote me, but TM HAS to make plastic guns. Someone as a So-Cal airosoft shop told me it was a legal issues and that in Japan, replica guns can't be sold with metal bodies.

That has been around the internet a couple of times now, I'm still very much skeptical about it. If the law exist at all, there must be something in particular about AEGs or TM's gun demography, because Marushin and Tanaka both make gas rifles with purely (or close to) metal exterior parts.

CanIplayDaddy · March 30th, 2006, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saint

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdogg

From my understanding and don't quote me, but TM HAS to make plastic guns. Someone as a So-Cal airosoft shop told me it was a legal issues and that in Japan, replica guns can't be sold with metal bodies.

That has been around the internet a couple of times now, I'm still very much skeptical about it. If the law exist at all, there must be something in particular about AEGs or TM's gun demography, because Marushin and Tanaka both make gas rifles with purely (or close to) metal exterior parts.

Ive also heard the same thing. But it seems WA makes some of their GBBs metal body or the like? Ill ask my friend living in Japan

Rumpel Felt · March 31st, 2006, 01:29

It's pure bullshit. Even TM themselves make the odd metal gun.....M14, M1?

If they're too cheap to use metal, they don't get my money. With the one and only exception mentioned above of course.

stokes · March 31st, 2006, 01:33

Systema situated in Japan right? They produce full metal bodies for their "replica" guns.

I am currently waiting for my KJW w/trades in Ray's first gun order. Since alot of the internals in the KJW are compatible with TM alot of things will be replaced to make it field worthy.

So yes go for the KJW (its costs less to fix if anything internally breaks than the plastic toy TM. Considering if you'd want to buy a metal body for it, that would really kill your wallet).

Captain Tenneal · March 31st, 2006, 05:18

The primary reason that they make monkey metal or poor-metal quality guns is IIRC to prevent the firing of a real steel round in an airsoft gun. Apperantly they had problems where some unsavoury types attempted to convert an airsoft gun to fire (albeit only one shot) real steel rounds since it's hard to obtain a real firearm in Japan.

As far as KJ goes, I am almost polar opposite to Rumpel: I've bought my KJ, and I'm never going back.

While, yes I am not a true fan of FMU guns (especially considering that my TM P226 still works wonderfully on propane and has had no serious flaws other than it needs a new loading nozzle), considering it outweighs the problems that have crept up on my other KJ...

My existing gun has had a full valve blowout (which needed to be fully wrenched from the gun so that the magazine could be ejected, and this was on a cold day), two leaking fill valves, three leaking firing valves, two broken hammers, piss poor gas consumption (I still cannot get the gun to fire through an entire magazine whenever it is colder than room temperature) and the shoddy mess that is their pot-metal frames/slides. And all of this when it was properly lubed.

I'm sticking to my TM's. They work. They work quite well. It's not that TM is cheap; they produce their guns to the standards set up by ASGK. When KJ goes and cleans up their act, I may think about buying one.

The Saint · March 31st, 2006, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuffinMan

The primary reason that they make monkey metal or poor-metal quality guns is IIRC to prevent the firing of a real steel round in an airsoft gun. Apperantly they had problems where some unsavoury types attempted to convert an airsoft gun to fire (albeit only one shot) real steel rounds since it's hard to obtain a real firearm in Japan.

As Jimmy said before being beaten to death with his own skull, "That doesn't seem physically possible..."

Rumpel Felt · March 31st, 2006, 17:13

Haha, that makes you think. You could technically beat someone with their own skull as you do not actually need it to sustain short term life. The whole removal and how much you can take before poking them with piece of bone is the hard tricky part.

Anyway, yeah, I don't think I'll regret this purchase of my one and only TM gun that was bought new and without alot to back it up to make it worthy. It's the stuff I am buying to make it worthy that still kills me. Oh well, I've spent more money on things to see if the're worth it.....

As for airsoft firing real bullets....who would would waist there time trying to (wow 4 w's and t's) do that anyway. Firing one shot is hardly worth the effort you would have to put into gun. It is TM's bottom of the barrel amount of accesories, upgrades and realism that makes me totally dispise them. If they didn't invent the AEG someone else would have. So why buy 200 horses when you can buy a car?

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March 29th, 2006, 17:48	#1
sdkfz234 Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, ON	TM P226 vs KJ P226 I'm trying to decide which to get, either the TM or the KJ P226. I know that with the TM, I don't need to worry about reliability or performance. However, since I would rather have a full metal version, the KJ is much more appealing especially given how the KJ is actually price lower than the TM version from most retailers. The "problem" is that I only use duster and not propane. The review that I also found here suggests that duster would not be sufficient for the KJ P226, at least in stock form. My questions are: 1. Can anyone else confirm that the KJ will not function properly when using duster? 2. Assuming that question is confirmed, would any of the huge number of upgrade parts available for the TM P226 be able to get the KJ P226 functioning properly? It doesn't have to shoot at over 300fps, but it should at least be able to shoot one full magazine. Worst case scenario (not really worst, just more expensive), would be to buy the TM P226 and the G&P metal slide and frame kit. Thanks for your comments.

March 29th, 2006, 18:32	#3
dead_aim Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: scarborough	there is a kjw 226 with full trademarks now... but as for duster on an upgraded tm i would say its works, but not well...i found that it didnt cycle as fast and did have enough power to lock the slide and theres no more ammo... i have a tm 4.3 fmu with a p226 enhance recoil spring(it fits.) __________________

March 29th, 2006, 18:33	#4
Jackals Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ottawa. Ontario	From personal experince with my old KJ M9 which was full metal I found it shot great on propane with no problems, however Duster is no where near strong enough to push out a bb at any decent FPS. I have the TM P226 and absoultly love it, I would recommend it over any other GBB i have owned. However and if Stalker see this thread, he will agree, once you start screwing around with a GBB you open a huge can of worms. If you do get a TM one and put a metal slide, you will still need to use propane to get the bb out, its the weight of the slide that the duster cant move very well. Anyways, thats my 2 cents for ya. __________________ Ottawa's Local Airsoft Site: www.ottawavalleyairsoft.ca

March 29th, 2006, 18:20	#2
Stealth Mr. Silencer Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	I was faced with a similar decision as well, but I reasoned it out to as follows: Price: KJW and TM are equal in price. However, you get a FMU kit with the KJW, and even though it doesn't have trademarks, it is still a major plus. If you were to get the FMU kit separately, then expect to pay at least another 100-150. The G&P kit isn't top notch, but it serves the purpose well. Performance: KJW rips the design from TM, literally. Most, if not all, the internal pieces are interchangable. Performance wise it will be similar. However, the TM mags do not fit the KJW. If you dig up Madmax's thread on KJW fill valves, you will see that they don't fill up very well either. Again, this relates back to the price. Pay more and get more shots per mag, or just carry around a can and fill it up out on the field, or even buy another mag to boot. Reliability: Luck of the draw on this one. With TM, you're guaranteed a working gun that will last you for years as long as you don't tamper with it. With KJW, you may need to fiddle around with certain things before you get it to work perfectly. As for your duster vs propane concern, it is a moot point. The TM with a FMU kit will not function very well if you were to use duster as the propellent. You would need to change the valve, and strengthen the hammer spring. Even then, duster may not provide enough power to cycle the slide properly during rapid fire.

March 29th, 2006, 21:47	#5
Rumpel Felt Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	I was just faced with the same decision. This is totally out of the ordinary for me, but I didn't choose the KJW with trademarks though I easily could have. Normally I would consider anyone out there who buys a TM gun with another one out there that is full metal a complete fool, but this time I decided to find out for myself if there was anything to be had with an upgraded TM you would not get with the KJW.....GBB wise. AEG wise it's painfully obvious TM is a complete rip off. I absouluty hate TM so it pained me to do it but I ordered one. However the only reason I did it was to have the Guarder aluminum body and various other upgrades and a VFC steel barrel, internally threded with adaptor. When it gets to me (just ordered it, have to wait) the discusting TM plastic parts will be torn off and I will never have to have the shame in holding what to me is a laughable toy. I will designate it as a Guarder P226 as to make sure TM gets no undeserved credit. I feel like a fool paying what I did for what will be mostly Gaurder and VFC. I only did this because i know what all the main parts are made of now, I wanted a project gun and thought I'd see if it was any better. Fuck, now that I think of it, I should have gotten the KJw, sold the metal body and gotten the Guarder one. FUCK, I fucking hate TM with their god damn plastic. Anyway, I still recommend you make the smart choice and get KJW.

March 30th, 2006, 20:59	#6
sdkfz234 Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, ON	Thanks for all the feedback, I definitely will be considering the KJ over the TM. I don't think any reliability/quality issues will be of much relevance, especially if I decide to get some upgrade parts in the future. It's a shame that the better quality TM mag won't work with the KJ P226. It'd be nice if all you had to do was sand down the magazine a bit, maybe repaint it if you cared about looks. I don't think I'd want to spend $70 to see if it'd actually work. Now to wait until the trademarked KJ P226 starts showing up... Thanks again

March 30th, 2006, 21:24	#7
Rumpel Felt Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	But TM mags do work. Someone tested them and said they are fine. The true shame is TM still makes plastic guns. You just need to get someone to order the trade marked one in.

March 30th, 2006, 21:30	#8
kdogg Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan USA	From my understanding and don't quote me, but TM HAS to make plastic guns. Someone as a So-Cal airosoft shop told me it was a legal issues and that in Japan, replica guns can't be sold with metal bodies. Ever noticed all the HK, Tawain, etc guns are metal and all the jap ones are mostly plastic? Ever seen a Jap gun with a metal body or metal slide stock?

March 31st, 2006, 01:29	#11
Rumpel Felt Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	It's pure bullshit. Even TM themselves make the odd metal gun.....M14, M1? If they're too cheap to use metal, they don't get my money. With the one and only exception mentioned above of course.

March 31st, 2006, 01:33	#12
stokes Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto	Systema situated in Japan right? They produce full metal bodies for their "replica" guns. I am currently waiting for my KJW w/trades in Ray's first gun order. Since alot of the internals in the KJW are compatible with TM alot of things will be replaced to make it field worthy. So yes go for the KJW (its costs less to fix if anything internally breaks than the plastic toy TM. Considering if you'd want to buy a metal body for it, that would really kill your wallet).

March 31st, 2006, 05:18	#13
Captain Tenneal Formerly Muffinman Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba	The primary reason that they make monkey metal or poor-metal quality guns is IIRC to prevent the firing of a real steel round in an airsoft gun. Apperantly they had problems where some unsavoury types attempted to convert an airsoft gun to fire (albeit only one shot) real steel rounds since it's hard to obtain a real firearm in Japan. As far as KJ goes, I am almost polar opposite to Rumpel: I've bought my KJ, and I'm never going back. While, yes I am not a true fan of FMU guns (especially considering that my TM P226 still works wonderfully on propane and has had no serious flaws other than it needs a new loading nozzle), considering it outweighs the problems that have crept up on my other KJ... My existing gun has had a full valve blowout (which needed to be fully wrenched from the gun so that the magazine could be ejected, and this was on a cold day), two leaking fill valves, three leaking firing valves, two broken hammers, piss poor gas consumption (I still cannot get the gun to fire through an entire magazine whenever it is colder than room temperature) and the shoddy mess that is their pot-metal frames/slides. And all of this when it was properly lubed. I'm sticking to my TM's. They work. They work quite well. It's not that TM is cheap; they produce their guns to the standards set up by ASGK. When KJ goes and cleans up their act, I may think about buying one. __________________

March 31st, 2006, 17:13	#15
Rumpel Felt Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Kitchener, Ontario	Haha, that makes you think. You could technically beat someone with their own skull as you do not actually need it to sustain short term life. The whole removal and how much you can take before poking them with piece of bone is the hard tricky part. Anyway, yeah, I don't think I'll regret this purchase of my one and only TM gun that was bought new and without alot to back it up to make it worthy. It's the stuff I am buying to make it worthy that still kills me. Oh well, I've spent more money on things to see if the're worth it..... As for airsoft firing real bullets....who would would waist there time trying to (wow 4 w's and t's) do that anyway. Firing one shot is hardly worth the effort you would have to put into gun. It is TM's bottom of the barrel amount of accesories, upgrades and realism that makes me totally dispise them. If they didn't invent the AEG someone else would have. So why buy 200 horses when you can buy a car?

TM P226 vs KJ P226

Airsoft Guns Discussion