KWA or ICS M4?

[jimmycudo]

Hey Airsoft Canada!

I'm thinking about picking up my first AEG, one that I plan on holding on to for quite some time, so I'd like it upgradeable and with a metal body just for the reliability.

Of course I don't want something that's not reliable or something like my WE 1911 that has some nearly unfixable problems.

Which one would be better? Should I pick up a CA instead of either of these or is the added price not worth it? I want to be able to hit about 330 in a clean line with a high poly system (don't care too much for semi auto).

Although I'd love to go out and pick up a GBB Western Arms M4 (that thing is absolutely amazing), I don't want to give up my arm and leg for something that requires a lot of maintenance. Though I do love the fact that there's no motor, which is a gangload of maintenance in itself.

What do you guys and gals recommend? Price isn't tooooo big of a deal as long as I know I'll be saving money in the long run and getting a nice piece of equipment.

[spartan117]

CA is a decent brand. I've owned one myself and it's pretty good. Some upgrades would make it even better. I wouldn't get western arms m4 though because i've heard many problems with it. These include the hopup, the bolt face,bolt catch(metal but will wear out fast), stock tube etc. All of those will need to be replaced to make it reliable(will cost a fortune) and it is mostly made of plastic. I would recommend a couple brands to you such as KWA, G&P, TM,or CA. personally, i would go with G&P because it's got very high quality internals and externals. KWA is good too(lipo ready although i would not recommend using it) but IMO i don't really like the overall look of the gun(colour, trades), and TM has great performance even with stock internals. There's a ton of after market parts for it. I own a TM m4 and i've upgraded the externals to it(just click my sig) I'm currently upgrading the internals to increase the FPS but so far no problems with it. Hope this helps

[White_knight]

ics is the poor mans systema. you get the same swapable "cylinders" (upper mech box) that allow you to easily swap from 300fps to 400fps. i own one and love it

[jimmycudo]

Originally Posted by White_knight

ics is the poor mans systema. you get the same swapable "cylinders" (upper mech box) that allow you to easily swap from 300fps to 400fps. i own one and love it

Wait you own a ICS or a Systema? Don't Systemas cost more than an arm and a leg? Like 1G or so?

[jimmycudo]

Originally Posted by spartan117

CA is a decent brand. I've owned one myself and it's pretty good. Some upgrades would make it even better. I wouldn't get western arms m4 though because i've heard many problems with it. These include the hopup, the bolt face,bolt catch(metal but will wear out fast), stock tube etc. All of those will need to be replaced to make it reliable(will cost a fortune) and it is mostly made of plastic. I would recommend a couple brands to you such as KWA, G&P, TM,or CA. personally, i would go with G&P because it's got very high quality internals and externals. KWA is good too(lipo ready although i would not recommend using it) but IMO i don't really like the overall look of the gun(colour, trades), and TM has great performance even with stock internals. There's a ton of after market parts for it. I own a TM m4 and i've upgraded the externals to it(just click my sig) I'm currently upgrading the internals to increase the FPS but so far no problems with it. Hope this helps

You own the sexiest M4 I've ever seen, the only thing I'd go without on that setup is the sight, I've never been a fan of that one specifically for some odd reason, but it's still the sexiest M4 evar.

So I'd have to fork out the money for a TM M4 $330USD, then start upgrading it?

Like what I'm thinking is if I have to upgrade the barrel to make it tight bore on both guns (if the barrel represents all other parts) then why don't I use the ICS as the body? If you haven't noticed already, I'm a noob and don't even know all the components in a AEG.

I know there's a gear box, battery, motor, hop up system, barrel, and that's it. I know a little bit about the smaller pieces here and there that really make the gun worth it or a pain in the ass, but I don't know about receivers, lipo, etc.

Question about the TM M4 though... how's it work? Accuracy and consistency wise, feel, maintenance, wear and tear, and anything else that you can think of... I'm really interested in seeing how well it shoots stock so I don't have to get too into upgrading internals since I'm not experienced with it.

[Gazaam]

If you can't afford a Systema, go with an ICS - I know I did!

[TokyoSeven]

Oh so many questions, I have absolutely no idea where to start.
I'll do this in point form.

1 - Take into consideration what you have for a budget. Look into the pricing tiers of the different brands and decide if you want to invest into something that may need a little work, or pay the extra and not have to do any initial upgrading. Example: Buying a TM gun and putting in metal bushings, a quality spring guide and stronger spring, or buying one of the new generation JG brand guns that already have the upgraded spring and parts. On that note.

2 - Upgrading, it is not nessceray thing. Upgrading a gun should not be confused with preventative maintenance. An example would be stronger spring, that would be something that would considered an upgrade. While replacing nylon bushings with metal ones would be considered preventative maintenance. Please refer back to my first point.

3 - ICS, Systema, Western Arms blah blah blah brand brand brand etc, please refer to the first sentence in my first point. Now with that in mind take into consideration the costs of upgrading or performing preventative maintenance on each of these brands. Also remeber to think about the availability of replacement parts and the costs of replacement parts should issues arise.

4 - In regards to your question about the TM M4, well TM in general sort of created electric motor driven airsoft as we know it today, to put it in loosely atleast. Their quality is often dismissed because buyers often want the most bang for their buck (which is fair), metal front ends, metal bodies, higher fps out of the box etc. People usually dismiss TM because of their plastic bodies and low FPS. However TM is a japanese based company keeping focus mainly on their own market, a market where airsoft has strict laws in their country, FPS limits ( nothing with muzzle energy above 0.98 joules). Legal requirements set on manufacturers ( to prevent any possibility of a replica weapon being converted into an actual firearm IE. use of low-melting point metals and non-ballistic plastics in structural components and making internal components uncompatable with real world gun components.) On that note though I dont see how systema fits into the picture....so the laws sorta contradict. However systema PTWs still exist...its a paradox of some form. I dont know, Im all over the map trying to answer all of your questions.

Im gona wrap this up quick and I hope you dont take offence to this, but as someone new to airsoft I recommend buying something that suits your needs right off the start. If you are not to farmiliar with internals and workings right now, it will only complicate your enjoyment of the hobby/sport. Please refer to point 2. There are many many reviews of all the brands you are asking about online. Your just going to get opions here, do some researching find some good reviews that really show the whole 9 yards of that guns you want and then consider your options. Im sleep deprived Im rambling and I think I fell asleep 3 or 4 times typing all this out.

Anyways...

Please take the time to fill in your profile, Where your from, your birthday etc.
This forum holds a lot of information. Please keep in mind before starting a new thread, that there maybe an existing one already. Near the upper right hand corner next to the quick links and log out tab is the search tab. With that you can attempt to see if there is a thread on the topic, don’t get discouraged if you don’t find something right away, change up your search words as well, the search system doesn’t just find tittles it looks for word matches in the content as well.

I’m sure you have a lot of questions, and in time you will find all the answers. There’s a lot to learn and it cant be picked up in a week or two. But in time you will learn what you need.

Heres a little reading Id like you to have a look at. I highly recommend reading through it if you are Canadian.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609
It will shed a little light on airsoft in Canada in general.

Now as for airsoft in Canada, just as a general consensus this website and the majority of its members follow the 18 years of age rule. Meaning that it is recommended that a person be the age of 18 before they acquire their first gun. It is recommended because 18 is the recognized age where a person can be held legally responsible for their actions. Now it may not be illegal in all provinces to own airsoft, but I do believe there is a province out there where there is an actual law stating that one must be 18 to purchase. Which one that is, I cannot remember. Hopefully someone can perk up and jump in on that part. The majority of fields used for airsoft play usually require that a person be 18 years of age as well, although I have heard of fields where there have been players as young as 16, with parental consent.
I would like to take a moment to touch on maturity. I find people of all ages quote maturity, unfortunately stating maturity is irrelevant when it comes to airsoft, for the most part at least. There have been people as old as 40 and up who have acted like they were 12. I have already stated why the age of 18 was chosen. Now from time to time I hear people who are underage say that they have grown up with firearms all their life and they hunt and everything etc. If this applies to you then you should pay attention to this, if not you should read it and take it to heart anyways. So you have hunted for a long time? Been around guns since you were little? Well good you should have a firm grasp of trigger and muzzle control then. Now unfortunately regardless how much experience you have with fire arms you can not use it as a bargaining chip to skirt around what has been set as a rule among this community.

In my personal opinion an airsoft gun is not a fire arm; however that’s my personal opinion. For me, an airsoft gun only looks like a fire arm but that’s where I draw the line in comparisons. They do not function the same, sure relations can be made but they still are not the same. Now although I may not consider an airsoft gun a fire arm, authorities will in most instances. If you get caught doing something stupid with an airsoft gun you will be charged as if you are committing an offence with a real fire arm. If you are under the age of 18, the damage falls onto your legal guardians, so the shit really hits the fan. If you’re 18 and over at least you can be held responsible for being stupid. That’s the jist of it, accept it or don’t.

This website has a process called age verification, where if you are 18 or older you can meet with a volunteer representative of this website who will meet with you in person, there is no way around this, no phone, no webcam, in person only, where they will require to see a legitimate piece of photo identification. After the process is completed, it can take sometime as this is all volunteer work, you will be granted access to this websites buy and sell section, where you can find both new and used guns, for fair and competitive prices. Although its not always the case, it is sort of an open market. With Age verification comes access to Canadian online retailer known as shootsoft. You will only be able to access and buy their inventory with ASC age verification

Things to keep in mind when initially getting into airsoft.

-Its usually best to start with an AEG.

-Remember to factor in the costs of gear for your kit, BDU's, footwear, vest or holsters, slings and most of all, eye protection. Money can fix teeth, but I don’t think we can fix a shot out eye yet.

-You don’t always have to have a side arm in the beginning, its something you can pick up along the way.

-In most cases its recommended to play with your gun stock for a while before considering upgrades. Upgrading can be costly and can cause complications in some cases.

-Don’t forget to buy magazines for whatever gun you choose. High caps are ok, but well they rattle. Mid caps and low caps in my personal opinion are best.

This link is a link to a page that has some information in regards to picking your first AEG. I suggest you take sometime and read it.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=253

Gun reviews can be found all over the internet, regardless which search engine you use, a different combination of search words can yield different searches. Let me keep it short and sweet, for the bulk of it, AEGS are simple motors that drive pistons that compress a spring to expel air to propel a BB down a barrel. How you want that set up to look is up to you. There are many brands of companies out there that make airsoft guns, how much you pay maybe relevant to the quality you receive.

Finally this website also has a FAQ section that holds some useful info, it may not be entirely up to date, but I suggest you poke around in there as well. You may find something handy.

There is alot of info here and it cannot be processed all at once, airsoft is not something you learn over night. Please feel free to reread what I have posted for you as many times as it takes for it all to sink it.


Oooh....almost 1700 words. I wrote you a small essay.

[jimmycudo]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

Oh so many questions, I have absolutely no idea where to start.
I'll do this in point form.

1 - Take into consideration what you have for a budget. Look into the pricing tiers of the different brands and decide if you want to invest into something that may need a little work, or pay the extra and not have to do any initial upgrading. Example: Buying a TM gun and putting in metal bushings, a quality spring guide and stronger spring, or buying one of the new generation JG brand guns that already have the upgraded spring and parts. On that note.

2 - Upgrading, it is not nessceray thing. Upgrading a gun should not be confused with preventative maintenance. An example would be stronger spring, that would be something that would considered an upgrade. While replacing nylon bushings with metal ones would be considered preventative maintenance. Please refer back to my first point.

3 - ICS, Systema, Western Arms blah blah blah brand brand brand etc, please refer to the first sentence in my first point. Now with that in mind take into consideration the costs of upgrading or performing preventative maintenance on each of these brands. Also remeber to think about the availability of replacement parts and the costs of replacement parts should issues arise.

4 - In regards to your question about the TM M4, well TM in general sort of created electric motor driven airsoft as we know it today, to put it in loosely atleast. Their quality is often dismissed because buyers often want the most bang for their buck (which is fair), metal front ends, metal bodies, higher fps out of the box etc. People usually dismiss TM because of their plastic bodies and low FPS. However TM is a japanese based company keeping focus mainly on their own market, a market where airsoft has strict laws in their country, FPS limits ( nothing with muzzle energy above 0.98 joules). Legal requirements set on manufacturers ( to prevent any possibility of a replica weapon being converted into an actual firearm IE. use of low-melting point metals and non-ballistic plastics in structural components and making internal components uncompatable with real world gun components.) On that note though I dont see how systema fits into the picture....so the laws sorta contradict. However systema PTWs still exist...its a paradox of some form. I dont know, Im all over the map trying to answer all of your questions.

Im gona wrap this up quick and I hope you dont take offence to this, but as someone new to airsoft I recommend buying something that suits your needs right off the start. If you are not to farmiliar with internals and workings right now, it will only complicate your enjoyment of the hobby/sport. Please refer to point 2. There are many many reviews of all the brands you are asking about online. Your just going to get opions here, do some researching find some good reviews that really show the whole 9 yards of that guns you want and then consider your options. Im sleep deprived Im rambling and I think I fell asleep 3 or 4 times typing all this out.

Anyways...

Please take the time to fill in your profile, Where your from, your birthday etc.
This forum holds a lot of information. Please keep in mind before starting a new thread, that there maybe an existing one already. Near the upper right hand corner next to the quick links and log out tab is the search tab. With that you can attempt to see if there is a thread on the topic, don’t get discouraged if you don’t find something right away, change up your search words as well, the search system doesn’t just find tittles it looks for word matches in the content as well.

I’m sure you have a lot of questions, and in time you will find all the answers. There’s a lot to learn and it cant be picked up in a week or two. But in time you will learn what you need.

Heres a little reading Id like you to have a look at. I highly recommend reading through it if you are Canadian.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=51609
It will shed a little light on airsoft in Canada in general.

Now as for airsoft in Canada, just as a general consensus this website and the majority of its members follow the 18 years of age rule. Meaning that it is recommended that a person be the age of 18 before they acquire their first gun. It is recommended because 18 is the recognized age where a person can be held legally responsible for their actions. Now it may not be illegal in all provinces to own airsoft, but I do believe there is a province out there where there is an actual law stating that one must be 18 to purchase. Which one that is, I cannot remember. Hopefully someone can perk up and jump in on that part. The majority of fields used for airsoft play usually require that a person be 18 years of age as well, although I have heard of fields where there have been players as young as 16, with parental consent.
I would like to take a moment to touch on maturity. I find people of all ages quote maturity, unfortunately stating maturity is irrelevant when it comes to airsoft, for the most part at least. There have been people as old as 40 and up who have acted like they were 12. I have already stated why the age of 18 was chosen. Now from time to time I hear people who are underage say that they have grown up with firearms all their life and they hunt and everything etc. If this applies to you then you should pay attention to this, if not you should read it and take it to heart anyways. So you have hunted for a long time? Been around guns since you were little? Well good you should have a firm grasp of trigger and muzzle control then. Now unfortunately regardless how much experience you have with fire arms you can not use it as a bargaining chip to skirt around what has been set as a rule among this community.

In my personal opinion an airsoft gun is not a fire arm; however that’s my personal opinion. For me, an airsoft gun only looks like a fire arm but that’s where I draw the line in comparisons. They do not function the same, sure relations can be made but they still are not the same. Now although I may not consider an airsoft gun a fire arm, authorities will in most instances. If you get caught doing something stupid with an airsoft gun you will be charged as if you are committing an offence with a real fire arm. If you are under the age of 18, the damage falls onto your legal guardians, so the shit really hits the fan. If you’re 18 and over at least you can be held responsible for being stupid. That’s the jist of it, accept it or don’t.

This website has a process called age verification, where if you are 18 or older you can meet with a volunteer representative of this website who will meet with you in person, there is no way around this, no phone, no webcam, in person only, where they will require to see a legitimate piece of photo identification. After the process is completed, it can take sometime as this is all volunteer work, you will be granted access to this websites buy and sell section, where you can find both new and used guns, for fair and competitive prices. Although its not always the case, it is sort of an open market. With Age verification comes access to Canadian online retailer known as shootsoft. You will only be able to access and buy their inventory with ASC age verification

Things to keep in mind when initially getting into airsoft.

-Its usually best to start with an AEG.

-Remember to factor in the costs of gear for your kit, BDU's, footwear, vest or holsters, slings and most of all, eye protection. Money can fix teeth, but I don’t think we can fix a shot out eye yet.

-You don’t always have to have a side arm in the beginning, its something you can pick up along the way.

-In most cases its recommended to play with your gun stock for a while before considering upgrades. Upgrading can be costly and can cause complications in some cases.

-Don’t forget to buy magazines for whatever gun you choose. High caps are ok, but well they rattle. Mid caps and low caps in my personal opinion are best.

This link is a link to a page that has some information in regards to picking your first AEG. I suggest you take sometime and read it.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=253

Gun reviews can be found all over the internet, regardless which search engine you use, a different combination of search words can yield different searches. Let me keep it short and sweet, for the bulk of it, AEGS are simple motors that drive pistons that compress a spring to expel air to propel a BB down a barrel. How you want that set up to look is up to you. There are many brands of companies out there that make airsoft guns, how much you pay maybe relevant to the quality you receive.

Finally this website also has a FAQ section that holds some useful info, it may not be entirely up to date, but I suggest you poke around in there as well. You may find something handy.

There is alot of info here and it cannot be processed all at once, airsoft is not something you learn over night. Please feel free to reread what I have posted for you as many times as it takes for it all to sink it.


Oooh....almost 1700 words. I wrote you a small essay.

Wow, thanks a lot TokyoSeven!!!! I really appreciate that you took the time to type all the out, thank you! I don't live in Canada, so I don't have as many rules and regulations, thought it's practically the same here (18 to buy, 14 with parental consent to play, waivers of death or injury have to be signed for every game, etc).

Anyway, I will most definitely begin reading the "For Newbies: Choosing a first AEG" FAQ and hopefully I'll be able to draw info out of there.

Well, I don't care tooooo much about the extra bit of FPS or making sure that it shoots perfectly in a straight line, but what I mostly care about is preventive maintenance and durability. Like you said, I'd probably end up putting metal bushings (don't know what they are yet) before upgrading the spring or piston.

I know I'll have to do a lot of research on things before I start them (each gun is different and some modifications may do harm), and find out small stuff like whether putting metal gears will help or harm the gun and more.

What I should have asked is "Which of the two would be less of a headache?" haha I just don't want something like the pistol I purchased that will have a few minor issues that will permanently hinder the gun's performance. I want something that runs nice and clean, even if it means having to change a few stock parts to keep it going strong.

I'll most definitely take your advice about going with a stock AEG for a while before taking it down and modifying it. I wish I knew that having an AEG first would be better.... though the pistol only skirmish I played was a blast either way. haha

Thanks again TokyoSeven for typing that up!!!

[jimmycudo]

Originally Posted by Gazaam

If you can't afford a Systema, go with an ICS - I know I did!

ICS huh? How well does it work? Is there any very important glitches with the gun that one should know about? Have you had any problems with it so far? If so, what problems have you had?

Sorry about the question storm.

[hongkong100]

ca number 1 no problems with me so far and lots of kills hehehehehe

[Gazaam]

Originally Posted by jimmycudo

ICS huh? How well does it work? Is there any very important glitches with the gun that one should know about? Have you had any problems with it so far? If so, what problems have you had?

Sorry about the question storm.

No problems whatsoever in it's current, stock form. It's pulling at 350 fps with a 9.6v 2000mAh battery pack, pretty damn accurate (it's an M4CQB) and with a nice ROF. It has a nice weight to it, and the only problem I foresee is getting rid of the ICS trades to custom engrave it for my L119A1 project.

[TCLP]

Originally Posted by jimmycudo

What I should have asked is "Which of the two would be less of a headache?" haha I just don't want something like the pistol I purchased that will have a few minor issues that will permanently hinder the gun's performance. I want something that runs nice and clean, even if it means having to change a few stock parts to keep it going strong.

I'll most definitely take your advice about going with a stock AEG for a while before taking it down and modifying it. I wish I knew that having an AEG first would be better.... though the pistol only skirmish I played was a blast either way.

KWA have 9mm and 8mm Bushings The 9mm I have yet to see anywhere by themselves. And ICS Tends to have parts that are made only for its M4's meaning that most other upgrade parts won't work.

Going to TM (its normally the benchmark of the m4 world) even with nylon bushings the stock spring won't make them collapse anytime soon meaning its ready to go and since its TM everything fits it, externally and internally.
But this m4 still has down sides, the hop up being the biggest its a 2 piece system that is used so that way the gun can be taken apart like a real AR. This hop up unit is really bad for leaks which in turn leads to lower fps.

With upgrading a gun go with consistency rather than power. That way your gun will always work, and your shots will go where you tell them. And by doing this as well it prevents really bad brake downs.

The best way to make any m4 more consistent is to change the hop up to a one piece metal unit, with a tightbore barrel. It will increase fps, range and accuracy and you don't even need to open the mechbox. After that when you go into the mechbox things like metal bushings(if it doesn't already have it), Ball bearing spring guide, ball bearing piston head, and a non-ported cylinder, will make your shots have a smaller gap in fps. And this to won't hurt a mech box as it doesn't add stress to the system.

The general rule around our parts is buy a gun and play with it stock for a season and that way you will find out what the gun needs.

[Kos-Mos]

I will tell you right now, and Cassius from this forum can attest.

You would REALLY prefer an ICS over any other brand.

The only reason you would chose something else is if you REALLY care for the markings of the body.

ALL "TM" compatible parts except the anti-reversal latch. This is because the ICS M4s are using the forward assist to disengage the ARL to realease the tension on the spring. It is not a part that suffer from poor material or extreme stress, you don't need to change it.

If you don't want to afford 2 guns, one for summer at 400 fps and one for winter at 350fps (general rules you will encouter across Canada), that is the best bet.

Actually, you can do like Cassius, buy a complete upper/front end/barrel and simply swap the whole. Since the upper mechbox contains the cylinder, you can change the inner barrel without worrying.

Again, ALL parts are TM compatible, aside from ARL. The one I am talking about is currently sporting these:

TM EG1000 motor
Systema Torque up gear set
TM piston
Systema aluminium piston head
Prometheus bearing spring guide
Prometheus spring (m120)
Prometheus nozzle
Guarder trigger unit
Guarder tappet plate
Systema type A cylinder and head

KA Troy 7" front end
Madbull M4 bull barrel
PFI flip-up front/rear sights
Random brand buffer tube
Huang's CRT stock
KA (don't remember the name) grip

Stock parts are:

Inner barrel
Hop-up chamber
Mechbox shell

The hop-up design of the ICS rifles is WAY better than the one of the regular M4s. It is very similar to the hop-up of a G36 actually. Less moving parts, less chances something breaks.

Plus, the rifle comes with a metal body, and price is lower than a TM.

Cassius is currently thinking about selling his other rifle, a full metal custom built Troy CQB. Worth about 1000$ in pieces. Because the ICS is easier to work, easier to use and a lot more efficient.

*Note: if you find words that don't exist, don't worry, I just woke up.*

[jameskersten]

I have an ICS M4, its been a great gun so far, only issue I have had was the hopup broke but was a simple fix with a new hopup none the less. It does have the ability to swap cylinders pretty fast so you can have a different power level if needed. Not as easy to do as my Systema but still a nice feature if you play at different venues with different FPS limts (ie. CQB and regular woodlands)

[jimmycudo]

Originally Posted by TCLP

KWA have 9mm and 8mm Bushings The 9mm I have yet to see anywhere by themselves. And ICS Tends to have parts that are made only for its M4's meaning that most other upgrade parts won't work.

Going to TM (its normally the benchmark of the m4 world) even with nylon bushings the stock spring won't make them collapse anytime soon meaning its ready to go and since its TM everything fits it, externally and internally.
But this m4 still has down sides, the hop up being the biggest its a 2 piece system that is used so that way the gun can be taken apart like a real AR. This hop up unit is really bad for leaks which in turn leads to lower fps.

With upgrading a gun go with consistency rather than power. That way your gun will always work, and your shots will go where you tell them. And by doing this as well it prevents really bad brake downs.

The best way to make any m4 more consistent is to change the hop up to a one piece metal unit, with a tightbore barrel. It will increase fps, range and accuracy and you don't even need to open the mechbox. After that when you go into the mechbox things like metal bushings(if it doesn't already have it), Ball bearing spring guide, ball bearing piston head, and a non-ported cylinder, will make your shots have a smaller gap in fps. And this to won't hurt a mech box as it doesn't add stress to the system.

The general rule around our parts is buy a gun and play with it stock for a season and that way you will find out what the gun needs.

Oh wow, thanks a lot for the great information!! I'm going to start looking up those parts just to see what they do and maybe watch a video of an ICS or TM M4 disassembly (lol not a real word) so I can get a better idea of the internals.

I do like the idea of going stock for a while, that way I can become more familiar and not invest too much money into the gun too early. I really like the idea of upgrading the problematic hop up (read jameskerstren's story) and putting the tight bore in, which is probably the one upgrade I really want that's not necessary in terms of preventive maintenance.

Thanks for the great detail on the consistency upgrades, the ones that lower the gap of FPS and help the strain on the internals, those are the kinds of upgrades I want running in my gun.

I'll be saving this thread or tracking it so that I can look back to this after a few months. D By the way, is it hard or expensive to find and install the full metal one piece hop up unit for the ICS since there's not a truckload of aftermarkets for it?

Originally Posted by Kos-Mos

I will tell you right now, and Cassius from this forum can attest.

You would REALLY prefer an ICS over any other brand.

The only reason you would chose something else is if you REALLY care for the markings of the body.

ALL "TM" compatible parts except the anti-reversal latch. This is because the ICS M4s are using the forward assist to disengage the ARL to realease the tension on the spring. It is not a part that suffer from poor material or extreme stress, you don't need to change it.

If you don't want to afford 2 guns, one for summer at 400 fps and one for winter at 350fps (general rules you will encouter across Canada), that is the best bet.

Actually, you can do like Cassius, buy a complete upper/front end/barrel and simply swap the whole. Since the upper mechbox contains the cylinder, you can change the inner barrel without worrying.

Again, ALL parts are TM compatible, aside from ARL. The one I am talking about is currently sporting these:

TM EG1000 motor
Systema Torque up gear set
TM piston
Systema aluminium piston head
Prometheus bearing spring guide
Prometheus spring (m120)
Prometheus nozzle
Guarder trigger unit
Guarder tappet plate
Systema type A cylinder and head

KA Troy 7" front end
Madbull M4 bull barrel
PFI flip-up front/rear sights
Random brand buffer tube
Huang's CRT stock
KA (don't remember the name) grip

Stock parts are:

Inner barrel
Hop-up chamber
Mechbox shell

The hop-up design of the ICS rifles is WAY better than the one of the regular M4s. It is very similar to the hop-up of a G36 actually. Less moving parts, less chances something breaks.

Plus, the rifle comes with a metal body, and price is lower than a TM.

Cassius is currently thinking about selling his other rifle, a full metal custom built Troy CQB. Worth about 1000$ in pieces. Because the ICS is easier to work, easier to use and a lot more efficient.

*Note: if you find words that don't exist, don't worry, I just woke up.*

Nice!!! This is just what I wanted to hear!! I want something that's not an arm and a leg but not cheap, and this definitely sounds like the gun!

The place I play in rents ICS M4's and MP5's, so I'll try both (the M4's are older so they're probably not a good representation of a new M4, but the MP5's are new so I'll get a feel of ICS's quality in general with them) on Friday or Saturday of this week and see how well it works. D

I've never played with an AEG, so God help me then, I got pwnd when I played pistols only, but I know that's because I'm a noob and pistols require more skill. haha

Originally Posted by jameskersten

I have an ICS M4, its been a great gun so far, only issue I have had was the hopup broke but was a simple fix with a new hopup none the less. It does have the ability to swap cylinders pretty fast so you can have a different power level if needed. Not as easy to do as my Systema but still a nice feature if you play at different venues with different FPS limts (ie. CQB and regular woodlands)

Wow, thanks for the info on the quick swaps. I don't live in Canada (unfortunately) so the regulations differ at each field location. Mostly it's 550 in large open fields (where I'll use my UTG L96 DD) and there's 350 in CQB. So it's nice to know I can change cylinders easily to have a 330fps one day and maybe a 450 the other, if that's a possible FPS with this gun.