Info Request - Ebaybanned's M4 Triple Hip Pouch

[Flatlander]

Here's what I'm refering to:

http://ebaybanned.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=1866

RSOV also carries it: http://www.rsov.com/index.php?target...roduct_id=2336

The clone stuff is hit and miss with the quality I've found so I'm hoping to get a few answers to the below:

- Is there a "real" version of this system? Or is there a similar system available? I specifically/hopefully am looking for a rigid platform with only friction fit mag holders (no straps, buckels, etc. for fast mag changes)

I've seen that BHI has their new modular platform but it doesn't look like there's any attachments for m4 mags.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Mod...rm,815,112.htm

It says it's MOLLE compatible but I don't understand how that's possible. I was thinking of getting the magpul fastmag system and putting a couple of those on the platform upside down. A buddy of mine has the fastmags and I guess you need to leave 1 row of MOLLE between each; I wonder if this would be a problem with the BHI platform, if even possible?



- Anyone have the ebaybanned version? Quality opinions?


Quick google search came up with nothing and it's too late for me to do some real searching. I'd much prefer the real deal or silimilar style system than testing my luck on the china stuff.

Thanks.

[Wilson]

It's cheap, I'd give it a shot.

it looks likes the kind of dumb shit BHI would do. Why waste real-estate on three individual kydex mag pouches when you can put 6 mags in the same space? Sigh...

The entire Serpa line is a solution looking for a problem.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

it looks likes the kind of dumb shit BHI would do. Why waste real-estate on three individual kydex mag pouches when you can put 6 mags in the same space? Sigh...

The entire Serpa line is a solution looking for a problem.

Partial agreement, real estate this thing is a HUGE waste of space. A very simple molle drop leg panel would have far greater potential than this particular rig.

That said, I suppose I dissagree with the "entire" Serpa line being useless. The Serpa holsters are an effective alternative to Safarilands, while I wouldn't dream of trading my Safariland for a Serpa, I still see potential with those holsters. The milspec rails create a secure location for extra mags and/or flashlight/suppressor attachments.

Though I have my eye on that new holster that holds all sorts of different pistols with no modification or adjustments just drop it in and go. There's a thread on em here somewhere but I've not found much more on them myself.

[Flatlander]

I agree that this unit isn't as efficient as others but it's the look I want as it will (hopefully) look good with my SERPA holster on the other side. Besides, we all know that looking 1337 is half the battle After dropping 3 pistol mags in one game I got fed up and baught a clone SERPA for my P226 and it's one of my favorite pieces of equipment I own.

Anyways, back on topic.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by Flatlander

I agree that this unit isn't as efficient as others but it's the look I want as it will (hopefully) look good with my SERPA holster on the other side. Besides, we all know that looking 1337 is half the battle After dropping 3 pistol mags in one game I got fed up and baught a clone SERPA for my P226 and it's one of my favorite pieces of equipment I own.

Anyways, back on topic.

Actually its still on topic, you asked for opinions/info on the item. The biggest problem with this whole rig is its wasting space, and not only is it wasting space, it is not evening doing that to any efficiency. What I mean by this is that for the trouble of a measly three spare mags you're going to create most probably more cause of discomfort and annoyance with this particular drop rig than you probably care for.

The rigidity of the rig will create issues when you are in cramped places, prone, crawling, or trying to get to places in a squeeze. The fashion the mags are left exposed leave lots of potential for them to get snagged causing fatal drag or possibly loss of the mag which is the original issue you've sought to solve. Personally I am going with a dump pouch on the left thigh, so that it will only be a nuisance after a long battle where I'm burning through the mags, which ultimately means I have other fish to fry than to fidget with a bit of gear on my leg, and when the skies clear I can transfer the spent mags to my pack to reload at a later time. Mags are best on the chest, there is a shorter travel time/distance between pouch and weapon which helps get the rounds down range faster. With a well placed rig, one can reduce their drag ((ie. shit catching them on the fly, like branches, twigs, grass etc.)) and increase their pay load with weight distributed properly that reduces fatigue in the body.

Bottom line, this kit might look cool, but won't do DICK for you in the long run. But, pick the gear you want, and when you do or don't like it then choose what to change shift modify burn sell or toss in a grinder.

Suppose I should clarify my earlier post. The Serpa belt holsters are the shit - I use one religiously for non-airsoft purposes. That being said, the whole kydex fancy-pants clicky locky shit is a huge waste of space, so, when I said the Serpa line, I should have excluded the belt holster.

I maintain that their drop leg holster is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. A little sand or muck or other fuckaboo in the release mechanism and the handgun is permanently locked in. First hand experience, folks.

Now if you're one of those pansy players who refuse to get shit, crap and corruption on your gucci kit, I suppose you'll never have a problem. But if you even think of going prone in a place like Rawdon, a Serpa holster should be the last thing you want on your thigh. On your hip, better.

I know, there's a HUGE debate on this. Regardless, if there's a chance of failure, it's a fucking certainty it'll fail when you need it.

Last - plastic weighs more than Cordura. For mag pouches, that platform introduces too much weight without any significant advantage.

[Flatlander]

My clone SERPA will stick open on me the odd time but has never failed closed. Then again my life isn't on the line so what do I care; it's just a game. I rolled around with it in a big sand pile - "Sand Base" at one of our local fields - and my stock TM P226 jammed up and the SERPA did not.

Anyways, I specifically asked if there was a "real" counterpart or similar system or for quality opinions on the china made one. This rig is for a particular venue/game and performs the function I want it to with the look I'm going for. Any help is much appreciated.

[Ming_the_Merciless]

Originally Posted by Flatlander

Here's what I'm refering to:

http://ebaybanned.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=1866

RSOV also carries it: http://www.rsov.com/index.php?target...roduct_id=2336

The clone stuff is hit and miss with the quality I've found so I'm hoping to get a few answers to the below:

- Is there a "real" version of this system? Or is there a similar system available? I specifically/hopefully am looking for a rigid platform with only friction fit mag holders (no straps, buckels, etc. for fast mag changes)

I've seen that BHI has their new modular platform but it doesn't look like there's any attachments for m4 mags.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Mod...rm,815,112.htm

It says it's MOLLE compatible but I don't understand how that's possible. I was thinking of getting the magpul fastmag system and putting a couple of those on the platform upside down. A buddy of mine has the fastmags and I guess you need to leave 1 row of MOLLE between each; I wonder if this would be a problem with the BHI platform, if even possible?



- Anyone have the ebaybanned version? Quality opinions?


Quick google search came up with nothing and it's too late for me to do some real searching. I'd much prefer the real deal or silimilar style system than testing my luck on the china stuff.

Thanks.

Yes there is a real verison, Safariland.

I have the exact setup that I run at a static range, and for other "ultra-high speed" stuff. If your interested get the 6004 Shroud, and the AR15 kydex magazine pouches (774-215-23). Although the price on them are pretty steep, I did a quick check and retail price looks around $30 to $40 for one kydex pouch. I got mine for much less $20 USD, but that was some time ago. I also raised the shroud as high as it can go vertically and removed the redundant leg strap.

I have no experience with the EB verison, but from the pictures, the replica looks pretty decent, the kydex pouches look very similar. My only China-Com experience with something similar would be the Huang verison which has the older 1st gen Bladetech Kydex geometry, and the plastic is cheap, however it does work for airsoft, and out of curiousity the real Safariland AR15 pouches fit fine.

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Actually its still on topic, you asked for opinions/info on the item. The biggest problem with this whole rig is its wasting space, and not only is it wasting space, it is not evening doing that to any efficiency. What I mean by this is that for the trouble of a measly three spare mags you're going to create most probably more cause of discomfort and annoyance with this particular drop rig than you probably care for.

The rigidity of the rig will create issues when you are in cramped places, prone, crawling, or trying to get to places in a squeeze. The fashion the mags are left exposed leave lots of potential for them to get snagged causing fatal drag or possibly loss of the mag which is the original issue you've sought to solve. Personally I am going with a dump pouch on the left thigh, so that it will only be a nuisance after a long battle where I'm burning through the mags, which ultimately means I have other fish to fry than to fidget with a bit of gear on my leg, and when the skies clear I can transfer the spent mags to my pack to reload at a later time. Mags are best on the chest, there is a shorter travel time/distance between pouch and weapon which helps get the rounds down range faster. With a well placed rig, one can reduce their drag ((ie. shit catching them on the fly, like branches, twigs, grass etc.)) and increase their pay load with weight distributed properly that reduces fatigue in the body.

Bottom line, this kit might look cool, but won't do DICK for you in the long run. But, pick the gear you want, and when you do or don't like it then choose what to change shift modify burn sell or toss in a grinder.

I must disagree with you. I've got a number of different 1st line setups, subloads and such, but running a modified verison of this is by far the one I most prefer.

It's definitely a, different strokes for different folks, issue. Though I disagree with you, the important thing in the end is that one has taken time to consider magazine placement, and orientation, to help keep things consistent and not have to deal with them in an stressful situation.

I personally prefer to index my magazines from the hip area. I am a right handed shooter, and when I need to perform a speed or tac reload its faster, and better economy of motion to reload from the hip. Without playing with straps, velcro, or further retention device, with Kydex I can simply pull up and get the gun back into the fight faster than other common or typical magazine pouches. Moreover, when the situation dictates it self, a low in a firefight, then I will bump my magazines from the last place where I would reload from and insert into the empty kydex pouch on the hip. Ensuring that I am always feeding ammo to my weapon at the greatest possible speed and effiency as possible.

Moreover, I prefer this subload over other hip pouches, as 30 round magazines often ride high on the hip, on belt (ex. Bladetech or Eagle kydex/nylon insert equavilent) and conflict with 2nd line setup, especially a fully-enclosed vest, opposed to a more light-fighter chest rig setup. This was the reason why I did the modification, bring the subload as high vertically as possible yet not interfering with my 2nd line.

Again, this is what I've prefered both with real-steel and airsoft.

One more comment, with regard to dump pouches. I run with one, but if you plan on using the dump pouch to store your partially full magazines, from a tac reload, it is freaking difficult sorting through pistol and rifle magazine that are partially full or empty. :banghead:

I've learned the hard way that if you do a tac reload, insert into the last pouch one would reload from, assuming thats if you have the same setup as I do with kydex, and bumping the magazines along the way.

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

Suppose I should clarify my earlier post. The Serpa belt holsters are the shit - I use one religiously for non-airsoft purposes. That being said, the whole kydex fancy-pants clicky locky shit is a huge waste of space, so, when I said the Serpa line, I should have excluded the belt holster.

I maintain that their drop leg holster is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. A little sand or muck or other fuckaboo in the release mechanism and the handgun is permanently locked in. First hand experience, folks.

Now if you're one of those pansy players who refuse to get shit, crap and corruption on your gucci kit, I suppose you'll never have a problem. But if you even think of going prone in a place like Rawdon, a Serpa holster should be the last thing you want on your thigh. On your hip, better.

I know, there's a HUGE debate on this. Regardless, if there's a chance of failure, it's a fucking certainty it'll fail when you need it.

Last - plastic weighs more than Cordura. For mag pouches, that platform introduces too much weight without any significant advantage.

This is off topic from the subload, but I'll add my 2 cents.

Agreed with the SERPA Level II or III retention, the locking mechanism has the chance of jamming. However, there is a SERPA line that does offer only passive retention, friction, just like other kydex holsters. Further more let me say I prefer Safariland's ALS/SLS retention, rotating hood, opposed to SERPA's Level II. However, I believe the SERPA design was innovative, though the LVII retention might present issues to an operator that is in a harsh/gritty environments. I have used a number of SERPA holsters, mainly as an option for carrying at the range or conceal carry in cold weather, and I have no complaints with it. I also like the SERPA thigh rig's method of distrubting the load, with Y-harness, that makes it one of the more comfortable thigh holsters I've worn over the traditional one point connection.

Here what I prefer with holsters:
Ankle Holster: Forbus or Galco
IWB (Inner Waistband Holster) w/ Laser-Light (Streamlight TLR-2): Raven Concealment
IWB w/out LaserLight: Crossbreed Supertuck
OWB (Hip/Belt) w/ Laser-Light: BladeTech WRS or Safariland ALS
OWB (Hip/Belt) w/out Laser-Light: SERPA, BladeTech, or Safariland
Thigh Holster w/Laser-Light: Safariland 6004 with Nylon or Kydex Shroud
Thigh Holster w/out Laser-Light: Safariland 6004 with Nylon or Kydex Shroud

[Dracheous]

Ming you've clearly read my post wrong or have not paid attention to it. When I complete a "tactical reload" it is under a low stress moment where I have the time to reinsert a partially loaded magazine into my chest rig, however to identify between empty and full magazines, my full magazines go into the pouch round first leaving me only the sight of the mag plate that tells me its full. If there is a single round in the mag it will go plate first into the pouch so that I can see it has a round but that I don't know the exact number of rounds in THAT magazine. Push comes to shove one bullet can save you so its not worth tossing.

I don't know about this "hip" business, because I don't use any of the kydex magazine pouches for two reasons. 1. Weight, by the time I get 8 mags into my rig with those pouches there is already a considerable amount of weight and I've not even gotten to field essentials yet. 2. Mags get pulled from them far too easily for my comfort. I've had them get caught up in my weapons sling and then worked free and fall from me which means I've got no bullets to save my hide anymore and missing ammo that now the enemy could possibly use against myself or my team mates. The subload again is rigid and will cause lots of room for discomfort for anyone that does any prone movements, you can trust me on that part as I've spent the last three years honing in sniper/spotter skills as my position when playing this sport. All my time is spent on my gut, and the last thing I need is something digging into me as I'm trying to move; or worse getting caught on everything I try to crawl through.

Lastly, I am primarily a left handed rifleman, I pistol and use a shotty in the right hand position however. I will say this about offsetting your magazines too much on your rig, it makes it that much harder for your off hand to get them. In the real world, if your left arm takes a hit, you now have three magazines out of reach. Where you could have placed the rifle between your legs, using your right hand now to remove the spent mag, insert a new one from the chest position and then away you go. Subloads should move gear off your chest rig to help balance the weight on your body for you to improve your mobility. Putting combat required equipment out of reach for any situation is a bad idea. Excess magazines fine, but we're talking about using up that left thigh for a grand total of three magazines. This is where the wasted real estate argument comes in. Better solutions would involve having a subload dump pouch, or utility pouches that allow you to store equipement. I will say I like HSGI's subloads for extra magazines on the left leg as they're very multi-purpose and can be used for many things. The best place I find for excess magazines if you're going to carry them "ready" to get is on your pack as buddy mags. One can use double up molle pouches that have a clip on them, invert the pouch so that when one releases the flap the mags will drop down into there hand easily enough to be pulled from your back. Additional to mags for yourself you also now have extra mags where team mates can grab a mag if they need it with out taking you off your gun. Keeping the fire up and the enemy back that much longer.



This thing is ALL look, which seems to be what Flatlander wants, so to an extent its serving its purpose. I just wouldn't recommend subloads like these at all, but if he wants to learn why I think that his own way then its his cash .

[trevor]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Ming you've clearly read my post wrong or have not paid attention to it.

In the real world, if your left arm takes a hit, you now have three magazines out of reach. Where you could have placed the rifle between your legs, using your right hand now to remove the spent mag, insert a new one from the chest position and then away you go. Subloads should move gear off your chest rig to help balance the weight on your body for you to improve your mobility. Putting combat required equipment out of reach for any situation is a bad idea.

Clearly you do not realize this is airsoft, not combat....set up your loads how you like and be done with it. We do not have to worry about trying to load with a round through the shoulder, we are playing with plastic.

[Ming_the_Merciless]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Ming you've clearly read my post wrong or have not paid attention to it. When I complete a "tactical reload" it is under a low stress moment where I have the time to reinsert a partially loaded magazine into my chest rig, however to identify between empty and full magazines, my full magazines go into the pouch round first leaving me only the sight of the mag plate that tells me its full. If there is a single round in the mag it will go plate first into the pouch so that I can see it has a round but that I don't know the exact number of rounds in THAT magazine. Push comes to shove one bullet can save you so its not worth tossing.

I don't know about this "hip" business, because I don't use any of the kydex magazine pouches for two reasons. 1. Weight, by the time I get 8 mags into my rig with those pouches there is already a considerable amount of weight and I've not even gotten to field essentials yet. 2. Mags get pulled from them far too easily for my comfort. I've had them get caught up in my weapons sling and then worked free and fall from me which means I've got no bullets to save my hide anymore and missing ammo that now the enemy could possibly use against myself or my team mates. The subload again is rigid and will cause lots of room for discomfort for anyone that does any prone movements, you can trust me on that part as I've spent the last three years honing in sniper/spotter skills as my position when playing this sport. All my time is spent on my gut, and the last thing I need is something digging into me as I'm trying to move; or worse getting caught on everything I try to crawl through.

Lastly, I am primarily a left handed rifleman, I pistol and use a shotty in the right hand position however. I will say this about offsetting your magazines too much on your rig, it makes it that much harder for your off hand to get them. In the real world, if your left arm takes a hit, you now have three magazines out of reach. Where you could have placed the rifle between your legs, using your right hand now to remove the spent mag, insert a new one from the chest position and then away you go. Subloads should move gear off your chest rig to help balance the weight on your body for you to improve your mobility. Putting combat required equipment out of reach for any situation is a bad idea. Excess magazines fine, but we're talking about using up that left thigh for a grand total of three magazines. This is where the wasted real estate argument comes in. Better solutions would involve having a subload dump pouch, or utility pouches that allow you to store equipement. I will say I like HSGI's subloads for extra magazines on the left leg as they're very multi-purpose and can be used for many things. The best place I find for excess magazines if you're going to carry them "ready" to get is on your pack as buddy mags. One can use double up molle pouches that have a clip on them, invert the pouch so that when one releases the flap the mags will drop down into there hand easily enough to be pulled from your back. Additional to mags for yourself you also now have extra mags where team mates can grab a mag if they need it with out taking you off your gun. Keeping the fire up and the enemy back that much longer.



This thing is ALL look, which seems to be what Flatlander wants, so to an extent its serving its purpose. I just wouldn't recommend subloads like these at all, but if he wants to learn why I think that his own way then its his cash .

First, let me say I appreciate the time you’ve taken to share your thoughts regarding gear placement, and what is efficient. Second, yes I have read though your post thoroughly, but there was some miscommunication on my part, which is common on the internet with this type of discourse, as I didn’t clearly articulate my ideas in response to your original aforementioned post. So let me try to clear it up.

I was simply giving a differing view point on the topic of gear placement; I was not critiquing your own setup, simply explaining what I preferred, sharing my personal experience and adding to the discussion regarding the functionality of a Kydex subload. Furthermore, my comment with respect to dump pouches was made assuming you utilized a dump pouch to drop partially empty/full magazines after a tac reload, as well as fully empty magazines from either a secondary or primary weapon. Again as I want to emphasize I was in no way criticizing your technique or methodology with tac reloads. We are actually on agreement here, if one stores the partially full/empty magazine thinking that somewhere down the line we will need it, then it stays out of the dump pouch.

To illustrate this point, I'll use an example:
Your in an intense firefight, you are now down to the last full magazine, but you remember you have a few mags left with ammo which you ditched in your dump pouch. You now have to dig in the pouch and search, you pull first an 1911 magazine, another 1911 magazine, an empty rifle magazine, another 1911 magazine, rifle mag, Twinkie, Twinkie, and now finnally a partially full mag.

We are also on an agreement to a certain degree in which Kydex magazines are functional as compared to traditional nylon. Kydex magazines, FastMags, Safariland/Bladetech and similar manufacturer pouches are meant as an aid when indexing magazines for fast reloads, not to replace all of the magazine pouches. Let me further clarify my preferred gear placement that made you believe I ran all my magazine pouches are Kydex. Although the situation dictates greatly what 2nd line I use, my airsoft or SHTF 2nd line is composed of entirely nylon magazine pouches. Whereas for static range use or for competitive use, I have another setup which is a Kydex essentially, though technically speaking nylon with Kydex inserts, design similar to Eagle Industries 1911 single-stack kydex insert pouches.


(Left Hand Side – Displays Typical 2nd Line Rig for Static Range Use or Competitive Use)

Kydex Weight?
With respect to the Kydex weight as an issue, I personally find it a moot point and I’m very confused at how this is an issue. Considering how heavy a rig can get. Even without plates the rig I use for training at a static range, carbine course, or competition is relatively heavy. However, I haven’t even considered Kydex as a factor of that weight. Obviously AR15 30 rounders plus XD45 13 rounders are blatantly heavier than Kydex, not to mention the additional weight when I insert plates within the rig. I would speculate that with airsoft the weight of Kydex is negligible.

Why Nylon or Kydex?
Meanwhile, the main reason I see nylon magazines pouches are better than Kydex magazine pouches, is an idea you eluded to your post, regarding maximization of MOLLE or gear real-estate. However I want to re-iterate that Kydex magazine pouches are viewed as a tactical aid for reloading, this is due to the use of friction for retention, eliminating cumbersome straps, Velcro and other retention methods that delay a critical moment in a gun fight. It is not meant to replace all your pouches.

Kydex Retention
In all my time using Kydex on my subload for magazines, Kydex holsters, and so forth, I have never had an issue where the magazine or firearm/airsoft gun has come loose. Then again my needs for retention are limited, I am not in an harsh environment, paratrooping, diving, or any physically demanding environment that might compromise my weapon or magazine retention. If this was the case, I definitely would be looking at buckles, straps, and further levels of retention. However, this would compromise access time, so there is some balancing to do with what levels of retention you find acceptable. Are you worried only about a BG take away on duty, jumping out of a plane, conceal carry, etc.

Kydex Comfort & Other Issues
Your right, certain drills on the ground can get uncomfortable, thats a big understatement. This difficulty applies to Kydex or nylon subloads, often I will find my pistol grip will eat dirt when shooting from a roll-over prone position, and reserve-roll over prone is the most uncomfortable with a left placed subload, especially if placed vertically high. Obviously, in a heavily foliage environment gear will get caught up on twigs, branches, and the like, whether Kydex, Nylon, gun, or the body. So this issue really isn’t applicable just to Kydex it self, again really if Kydex to you is a no-go, ditch it, throw it into your tactical tool-box for later consideration. As for a sling bunching on Kydex, depending on what your using can bunch get caught on anything, even rails (advocate of rail guards on primary). On funny note I have had the free tail of the Viking Tactics sling go into my mag well once, funny on the gun range, but not in a gun fight, so I ditched it for a Vickers sling.

Shooting While Wounded
Thanks for bringing up this issue, extremely critical to consider if you think you’ll ever find yourself in a gun fight. Airsoft, blah, but real-world, yes. I can’t speak to this, I never been shoot, hope I never do, but some of the training drills addressing this issue can really push a shooter to the limit. Running slick is one thing, doing it with all your gear can really make you re-consider gear placement, so this issue is very important. But even more important is the mindset, which is a completely different topic within itself, but with respect to “proper” gear placement, all I can say is that whether its Kydex or Nylon, whether your magazine is in a pouch located to index from the hip, thigh, chest, train, train, and TRAIN AS YOU FIGHT!

End Notes
Kydex is not just a “cool-guy” feature or “chicks-dig-it”, it is extremely functional in my opinion, helps augment the shooter’s ability in shaving off seconds on a critical reload, and is a great tool in the toolbox. Bottom line, where you place your gear is up to you, consistency is key here, but with Kydex less actions means better economy of motion, getting the gun into the fight faster, and winning the fight!

These opinions are not my own, in fact these two instructors, Chris Costa and Travis Haley, both great no BS instructors from Magpul Dynamics were the reason I've completed re-engineered my gear placement. If you get to chance to come to the US and take a Carbine class, this one is great!



Here is a video of how f*ing high speed one can get with Kydex hip pouches:
YouTube - Magpul Dynamics DVD trailer 2

Flatlander, sorry, topic suddenly diverged into one regarding the functionality or tactical use of Kydex, to magazine placement (thigh, hip, or chest), and more. If you want it just to match with your SERPA, whatever floats your boat man, I could care less. What was important to me, was you and others on the forum get a different perspective on Kydex, and discourse into gear placement.

[Flatlander]

Thank you very much for your help, Ming. According to Safariland's website, the 6004 shroud appears slightly different (1 strap vs 2 on the clone) and that the kydex pouch is only designed for belts:

Shroud: http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6004-10
Kydex: http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=774

I'll have to keep poking around and search elsewhere (EDIT: Found some. Looks like their website isn't updated with all their current products). It's probably safe to assume that mounting kydex pouches to the IBH dropleg platform would involve custom modifications or some sort of adaptor plate? I'm pretty fond of the Y-harness design on my SERPA platform.


For those that thought I'm the "all show - no go" type of player...well you're probably half right A big part of the fun (for me) of this hobby is playing dress up. I do attempt to equip myself appropriately for different situations but if it looks like shit, I don't care how effective it is I probably won't wear it (that's just my opinion). For those curious, this is my justification for this drop leg kydex platform:

- It's intended use is for CQB venues where crawling around in the bush and going prone is very limited or none. I did wind up mounting my SERPA on my belt because the dropleg is a pain in the ass when crawling through the bush and prone...which I do a lot of.

- I run a CIRAS with the standard velcrow double mag pouches and a dump pouch on my left hip. The velcrow is a bit cumbersom for reloading. For previously mentioned CQB venues, I generally tuck the velcrow straps into the pouches and have the mags just friction/gravity fit for easy reloads since I generally don't have to worry about rolling around and losing mags...but it still happens especially when there is only 1 mag in the pouch at the time.

- I run all low caps; 9 minimum and up to 13 sometimes so I would prefer to keep the flaps closed to prevent me losing/dropping any mags. The kydex dropleg would allow me to close the flaps but still have fast access to mags when needed.

I'm a big boy and have been playing this game long enough to know what generally works for me. I'm still constantly rearranging my rig slightly and trying new things. I can afford to get it wrong and learn things the hard way because it's just a game. If I get shot because my kit wasn't in the right place I don't throw a hissy fit, I smile and go respawn then usually go out for supper/beers after the game with the guy who shot me.

Ming, great post except for one thing I disagree with entirely.

Empty mags don't go in a dump pouch, not for real steel. The go on the fucking ground, or in a pocket, but never in the dump pouch. Pick em up later if you can, or don't. Either you're dead or you won the fight - deal with your droppings if and when you have time.

Airsoft...that's different. Airsoft mags are more expensive than GI 30-rounders. Put em wherever you want.

Only partially-loaded mags go in the dump pouch, for JUST the reason you specified. When you reach into that pouch, it's to grab a life-saving magazine with a few rounds in it. Pulling out an empty mag will get you dead.

FYI, I can reload my AR from a nylon pouch in about 2.5 seconds. Some folks here (Wilson for one) have seen me doing reload drills from the workstation. Its about practice. And btw, I'm SLOW compared to a lot of the guys I train with.

If Kydex mag pouches work for you, then great. Enjoy. Not my thing, personally, except for my glock mags for real steel, under the suit jacket.

As for Magpul Dynamics, their instructors are top notch. That being said, they don't really screen the people who take their courses, and that's a big negative to me. Rental rifles and fat fuckers doing workstation drills....I dunno man. Tac Response has my vote.

[Ming_the_Merciless]

Originally Posted by Flatlander

Thank you very much for your help, Ming. According to Safariland's website, the 6004 shroud appears slightly different (1 strap vs 2 on the clone) and that the kydex pouch is only designed for belts:

Shroud: http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=6004-10
Kydex: http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=774

I'll have to keep poking around and search elsewhere (EDIT: Found some. Looks like their website isn't updated with all their current products). It's probably safe to assume that mounting kydex pouches to the IBH dropleg platform would involve custom modifications or some sort of adaptor plate? I'm pretty fond of the Y-harness design on my SERPA platform.


For those that thought I'm the "all show - no go" type of player...well you're probably half right A big part of the fun (for me) of this hobby is playing dress up. I do attempt to equip myself appropriately for different situations but if it looks like shit, I don't care how effective it is I probably won't wear it (that's just my opinion). For those curious, this is my justification for this drop leg kydex platform:

- It's intended use is for CQB venues where crawling around in the bush and going prone is very limited or none. I did wind up mounting my SERPA on my belt because the dropleg is a pain in the ass when crawling through the bush and prone...which I do a lot of.

- I run a CIRAS with the standard velcrow double mag pouches and a dump pouch on my left hip. The velcrow is a bit cumbersom for reloading. For previously mentioned CQB venues, I generally tuck the velcrow straps into the pouches and have the mags just friction/gravity fit for easy reloads since I generally don't have to worry about rolling around and losing mags...but it still happens especially when there is only 1 mag in the pouch at the time.

- I run all low caps; 9 minimum and up to 13 sometimes so I would prefer to keep the flaps closed to prevent me losing/dropping any mags. The kydex dropleg would allow me to close the flaps but still have fast access to mags when needed.

I'm a big boy and have been playing this game long enough to know what generally works for me. I'm still constantly rearranging my rig slightly and trying new things. I can afford to get it wrong and learn things the hard way because it's just a game. If I get shot because my kit wasn't in the right place I don't throw a hissy fit, I smile and go respawn then usually go out for supper/beers after the game with the guy who shot me.

Glad I could help you out, meanwhile you'll definitely see the advantages with Kydex in CQC/CQB.

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

Ming, great post except for one thing I disagree with entirely.

Empty mags don't go in a dump pouch, not for real steel. The go on the fucking ground, or in a pocket, but never in the dump pouch. Pick em up later if you can, or don't. Either you're dead or you won the fight - deal with your droppings if and when you have time.

Airsoft...that's different. Airsoft mags are more expensive than GI 30-rounders. Put em wherever you want.

Only partially-loaded mags go in the dump pouch, for JUST the reason you specified. When you reach into that pouch, it's to grab a life-saving magazine with a few rounds in it. Pulling out an empty mag will get you dead.

FYI, I can reload my AR from a nylon pouch in about 2.5 seconds. Some folks here (Wilson for one) have seen me doing reload drills from the workstation. Its about practice. And btw, I'm SLOW compared to a lot of the guys I train with.

If Kydex mag pouches work for you, then great. Enjoy. Not my thing, personally, except for my glock mags for real steel, under the suit jacket.

As for Magpul Dynamics, their instructors are top notch. That being said, they don't really screen the people who take their courses, and that's a big negative to me. Rental rifles and fat fuckers doing workstation drills....I dunno man. Tac Response has my vote.

Thanks for the info, and I agree with you 100% with regard to the use of a dump pouch. However there are a few times where I do have empty pistol or rifle magazines in the pouch because I pick them up after a drill, and continue through a different drill without having a chance to top off.

In retrospect given the current political environment, magazine "attachment", babying the mag, might be a good idea during this time of panic, for penny pinchers like my self. Its absolutely ridicilous state side, political situation has caused a huge gun-panic. Fear of a new AWB (Assualt Weapons Ban) which would eliminate certain "assualt rifles" and high capacity magazines makes it increasingly difficult to find standard aluminum magazines, and PMags, I've got a 20 PMags backordered for months, slowly phasing out the aluminum ones for the PMag. Again I am pissed to say the least, sorry, had to let that out, stripped lowers are practically gone, ammo prices in some cases have tripled, sigh...

Back on topic, hey give your self some credit thats quite an good shot time you got there. I wish I had the time to train and be as committed as some of these "ninija" shooters, that shoot an unbelievable times consistently. I don't recall the precise time I've seen, but the "fastest" shooter for the speed load qual was using a Redi-mag system, with a specialized bolt catch/release that can be activated by the dominant finger, and whew, called him Mr. Flash Gordon. But damn his rifle was one heavy mother. Anyhow, I typically average around the same time time as you do, with about with a little less than 1/2 second with the first break of the shot, with a total of about 2.5 for the entire qual (buzzer/beep to last shot). So from empty bolt to next shot thats around 2 seconds on a "good" day for me. Considering your less than a 1/2 second off with nylon opp,osed to kydex thats outstanding buddy.

As far as carbine courses, yes I've heard nothing but good things from Yeager, wished I had enough vacation days saved up to attend multiple day classes down in east coast. Another one that peaked my interest, which is closer to home, is the USSA Shooting Academy down south in Tulsa, Oklahoma. What do you guys have available in Canada?