Sorbo - Testing Results

[m102404]

I'll flesh this out as I go and develop more information.

Tirador gave some parts to Jugglez who gave some parts to me to test...

I received the following:- 2 x MASK Pro Cylinder Heads
- 1 x MASK Aluminum Piston Head w/ Bearing
- 1 x MASK Sorbo Piston Head w/ Bearing
- 1 x Set of Sorbo Tablets (blue and black)
- 1 x 400 spring Comp
- 1 x 450 spring Pro

MASK - Mechbox Anti-Shock Kit
There's been a lot of buzz around the Sorbo stuff and I've tried to keep up with the info as it develops. The main premise is that the compressive characteristics of Sorbothane are such that the force of an impact shock on it is spread out over a longer period of time when compared to typical rubbers. Also, the characteristics of the material are claimed to be such that the material can better absorb the energy of the impact and transmit less of it from the piston to the mechbox shell, when compared to regular piston/cylinder heads.

Review:
I'm wondering how best to review this...so this may change a bit as I develop the information.

I have a CQB M4 that shoots roughly 345fps w/ 0.20. Far from a mechox destroyer...but relative comparisions should still provide some insight.

MASK Cylinder Head Notes & Observations:
First off...these units are beautifully machined. I have not spec measured the cylinder head...but it looks to be very precisely manufactured. There are few if any machining marks (the outer surface of the nozzle or in the hard to reach areas around the base of the nozzle are giveaways) left from the manufacturing.

The have a single o-ring, that looks to be nicely put in place. I have not checked to see how easily this o-ring can be replaced. The cylinder head fit very snugly with the several cylinders that I tried...air-seal between test cylinders and the cylinder head was excellent.

I did not test fit a number of nozzles to the cylinder head...I will do so in the near future. On the KWA M4 nozzle that I did use...it was leaky...but then again that particular nozzle was leaky on the stock KWA cylinder head as well.

The most prominent feature (aside from the shiney bling factor) of the cylinder head was the sorbo pad. Unlike other sorbo pads that I've come across...this pad had a black rubber sheet attached on it. The blue sorbo pad and the black pad (really more of a sheet than a pad) added up to be quite thick compared to a stock cylinder head. The pad is more rubbery than spongy...softer than the stock rubber typically found on cylinder heads. It appeared to be firmly glued in place. After I run a couple of thousand rounds through it...I'll tear it apart and see if the adhesion has been compromised at all.

MASK Sorbo Piston Head w/ Bearing
Constructed from a white plastic material (seems like UHMW plastic), the unit appears machined vs. cast...but I'll inspect more closely later. The o-ring is a nice thick one that fits nicely in the piston head slot. The piston head is ported (6 holes I think...I'll have to check). The thrust plates are simple washers...the thrust bearing is a simple bronze coloured ring with captured bearings (cannot recall how many bearings...will confirm later). The assembly went together very well on a stock TM piston. The screw used to join them together was neither too long nor too short...although I will note that the screw head required a smaller phillips head screw driver than most other bearing piston heads (not a big deal).

First Assembly and Test Fire
Original setup was a stock KWA mechbox set with a Modify S90 spring. The stock polycarbonate piston (hard black) and the aluminum piston head (no porting) resulted in quite a sharp loud sound when firing against the stock cylinder head.

I swapped in the MASK cylinder head and MASK piston head and did immediately notice a quieter/softer shot sound. I had a very limited amount of time and quite honestly hurried through this first install.

Without access to a decible meter...I suspect that the best way to measure any differences would be to film the rifle firing. I'll work on that later.

Testing Platform Update:
I was kicking around ideas of how to work through testing this stuff...and I decided to dive in and test a couple of other things at the same time. I wanted the test platform to be such that I could compare MASK vs. non-MASK setups in as similar as possible setups...without missing a mortgage payment. I'm going to test some of the new PP System pistons and their Torque Up gearset at the same time. It's supposed to be the same Prometheus items before they're branded Promethus....we'll see how they hold up.

So I ordered the following just for these tests.
2 x PP System Hard Piston $25
2 x Modify Poly Bearing Piston $15
1 x Modify Air Seal Nozzle AK47 $9
2 x Modify Air Seal Nozzle M4 $9
1 x PP System Torque Up Gearset w/ Hard Piston $70
1 x G&P 7mm Complete Gearbox $210
+ misc hopup rubbers and stuff.

So after all is said and done...I should be able to comment a bit on:
- PP Systems pistons...and compare to Modify pistons
- PP Systems gear set...and compare to G&P gearset
- ROF differences between stock JG, EG1000, Systema Magnum motors
- Modify S90, S110, S120 and ASR 400/450 springs (not sure about how far I'll test each of these...)
- MASK Piston Head vs. "Plain" polycarbonate piston head
- MASK Cylinder head vs. "plain" piston head
- more LiPo tests

I will be testing the assemblies with just the mechbox and grip/motor attached...but I want to test primarily with it setup in an M4 shooting BBs...since that'll be how it's eventually used.

I figured I'd retest all the Madbull BBs I got as well...still can't do controlled accuracy tests at range...but I should be able to get some consistency/comparative results.

If anyone wants to chip in...ideally I'd get another G&P M120 mechbox to do a MASK/non-MASK test to destruction...but I'm tapped out at the moment.

More to come!


Tys

[johjoh]

Mhm Alot of useful info so are they still worth it in the long run in low powered CQB weapons witch are not mechbox destroyers? because less sound is always nice, but durability over the top is for me

[Shirley]

Oh sweet! Can you make a video?

[Dragate]

YESS~~ haha I was looking everywhere for a review on them!
perfect

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Oh sweet! Can you make a video?

please do haha I would like to see the sound differences =] (for the shooter)

[m102404]

The only video capability that I have is the old pocket camera...we'll see how that works.

I'll be doing a series of tests and rebuilds with these parts. I'll try to keep the tests as directly comparable as possible...but it'll be tough to go through and document that many rebuilds (plus there are some pretty big games that I'd like to hit and try this stuff out in the field...)

Tys

[Shirley]

Now you can run li-pos.

[Daiviet]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Now you can run li-pos.

He's already been running li-pos, you don't need a sorbo pad to run one.

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by Daiviet

He's already been running li-pos, you don't need a sorbo pad to run one.

Oh, but li-po to shoot with 400 spring anf 450 spring, you do need a sorpo pad, don't you?

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Now you can run li-pos.

What does a Li-Po have to do with mechbox stress? Sure it has a higher ROF, but it's not like it's exerting more force on the mechbox shell.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

Oh, but li-po to shoot with 400 spring anf 450 spring, you do need a sorpo pad, don't you?

No. Why would you assume that?

[m102404]

Lol...no. You do not need a sorbo to shoot a 400fps or 450fps AEG (version 2 or otherwise). Plenty of guys (I think there were 3 or 5) blew their mechboxes 2 weekends ago at the outdoor games...it was just too cold. And I know at least two of them were shooting 350-380fps.

Single fire or full auto...I'm not sure that it'll make a difference. My gut tells me that a good burst of full auto will weaken-then-break a mechbox shell faster than the same number of spaced-out-semi shots...but part of me thinks that once a failure starts on a mechbox shell...it'll break "next-shot" quick.

My 11.1 1100mah 15c lipo is about the same as a 9.6mini or a really big 8.4v large...maybe a little faster...not much more than a 9.6v large though. 30+ RPS guns are silly anyways...fun to try and build...really expensive on parts...but practically useless for field games.

(note...personally, I've NEVER popped off the front of a mechbox in one of my field builds. I blown some on purpose testing failures...but never in a go-to field gun. But my field stuff runs pretty tame anyways).

Anyways...at the last Workshop I gave away all my clone/cyma/well/junk mechbox shells....so I don't really have any "stock" mechbox shells to test with. I'll scrounge up another to try and "pop" it....should be fun.

[ujiro]

Just a note; I had some issues installing the MASK piston head into a presumably SystemA (yellow) piston body. It got caught slightly on the metal tooth insert of the piston. Just required some force to get into place.

[lemegacool]

i use tirador's sorbo pads in my 2 aks and my vsr10, the aks definitively sounds a little bit quieter and the vsr10 ... well it's a gspec with the silencer sooo it nearly makes any noise only a little "po!" geat stuff! now i'm buiding a mp5 gearbox and mabe will try the mask kit, i've read somewhere that (with the mask kit) you should cut off some piston tooth to prevent piston stripping due to the more thick piston head... any issues due to that or it's working fine...

[DENZILDON]

Here's a vid of my old gun that has a sorbo pad. I don't have the before installation. This was shot in my condo but when I shoot it outdoors, it's pretty silent

YouTube - Upgraded CA15A4 soccom

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by ujiro

Just a note; I had some issues installing the MASK piston head into a presumably SystemA (yellow) piston body. It got caught slightly on the metal tooth insert of the piston. Just required some force to get into place.

Systema pistons are not yellow. I've only seen yellow pistons made by Classic Army, but I'm sure there could be more manufacturers.

Systema is not one of them.