Any Organic Chemist/ Biochemist can answer this? Propane Danger

[kullwarrior]

Alright I'm gonna say these before uninformed people start screaming the same ol crap.

THIS TOPIC's PROPANE DANGER IS NOT ABOUT:
FLAMABILITY
HEAVIER THAN AIR
SMELLS STINKS (Its Dimethyl Sulfide not Propane that smells)


This topic is about the inherant danger of alkanes if anyone is in University 4th year, grad or organic chemist please answer this. (Biochemistry might also work)

Today, in my Orgchem lecture my prof mentioned the danger of sniffing bunch of stuff including alkanes aka propane. She said that inhaling propane is not a good thing as the respiratory tract would easily pull propane in when you breath in. The biggest problem is that non-polar stuff such as propane goes into individual cell relatively easily and will destroy the cell itself as alkanes are harmful.

Now, I'm a first year so I don't know much but based on what I know:
Any alkane aren't particularly good for a cell especially in the lungs
Alkane are non-polar and can be diffuse into a cell easily due to lipid bi-layer and the molecule as gas

To question that statement,
I know that lung has muscous layer which is made to protect harmful stuff to certain extent (mainly solid though)
I also know that Lipid bi-layer dont tend to absorb non-polar substance easily.

So exactly what is the danger of propane by itself as a chemical to a cell?

If you know please feel free, (and cite level of education on this if possible as I suspect alot of people are just gonna use normal common sense or high school chemistry)

[ujiro]

I'm in University for Chemical engineering, taken quite a bit of orgo chem. You don't really have too much to worry about with propane. While alkanes are "not good" for you to breathe, really, you are talking about large amount of it before its at a concentration high enough to do any damage. If you were directly breathing in propane from the tank, maybe you'll get lightheaded. It would take prolonged exposure to cause any real damage to the lungs.

The outside of the cell membrane is hydrophilic. Propane won't do much to it, since it is non polar. Can't really diffuse through, and there is no channel/gateway for alkanes, since cells don't need them. If it did manage to find its way into the membrane, it might be able to cause a rupture by dissolving the inner portion of the cell membrane (the hydrophobic part). But it would need to be in mad high conc to do this I think.

Edit: only fear is because propane is a pretty smell molecule, it may be able to fit between the portions of the lipid outer layer...

Interested to see anyone elses opinion on this.

[kullwarrior]

hmm interesting answer,
judging by the lack of response I'd say most people have no idea what Im talking about...

[Disco_Dante]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

hmm interesting answer,
judging by the lack of response I'd say most people have no idea what Im talking about...

Bingo

[iamdecent]

Alright since no one is stepping up to the plate I guess I will have a stab at it

Education: Double Major in Neuroscience + Psychology, currently studying for MCATS

Dangers of Propane
Propane, when breathed in is not particularly dangerous per se in small doses (that is not a dear by the way, for all those that are reading this ). AFAIK I do not believe that propane is capable of crossing the cell membrane. Although the molecule is nonpolar, only nonpolar + SMALL molecules (i.e.: oxygen + water) are able to diffuse pass the lipid layers. Therefore it being relatively inert, in a biological system, will simply be a gas which causes asphyxia in high amounts.
Of course this is only possible in a small enclosed environment with a relatively high amount of the propane floating about. Asphyxiation is induced within an individual by decreasing the atmospheric partial pressure of oxygen (PO). Since partial pressure of the oxygen is one of the main driving forces for respiration, the hemoglobin within our blood will have less affinity for the oxygen. This makes it harder for the lungs to exchange gases (CO2 and O2) and consequently causes the person to hyperventilate and eventually pass out from lack of oxygen.

But it is heptane and octane (the fuels we put in our cars) that had been noted to cause neurological damage and suspected as being carcinogenic. It is those gases which you should avoid sniffing in, but is also the reason why some kids sniff gasoline too…

Edit:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=t4o-...age&q=&f=false
Pg 41 last two lines + pg 42 First line

[Drake]

Education: village idiot

However I do trust the experts in the field, such as those who write up OSHA and MSDS reports; reading the MSDS for propane, it's listed as only a slight health hazard (mostly due to asphyxiation).

So unless your query was of purely academic nature, with abstraction of the scientific particulars it's been deemed relatively safe when used normally (i.e., don't huff that damn stuff).

[Sacre]

Hmm, I wouldn't want to make you all stunned at the level of education I have, so i'll spare the long list of courses/universities, programs etc.

Propane is a flammable, and it burns, your lungs are made of a material equal to nylon, which burns fast. If you breathe in propane not only will it make your leg vanish, it'll make you heavier then air! And on top of that, my good friend, it has a bad smell to it (Which is clearly the propane itself and not Dimethyl Sulfide)

Joking aside:
I believe the answers above mine made what you're asking pretty clear. In my point of view of course.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Sacre

Hmm, I wouldn't want to make you all stunned at the level of education I have, so i'll spare the long list of courses/universities, programs etc.

Propane is a flammable, and it burns, your lungs are made of a material equal to nylon, which burns fast. If you breathe in propane not only will it make your leg vanish, it'll make you heavier then air! And on top of that, my good friend, it has a bad smell to it (Which is clearly the propane itself and not Dimethyl Sulfide)

Joking aside:
I believe the answers above mine made what you're asking pretty clear. In my point of view of course.

dude thats really a bad joke, and kinda pointless to the topic.

[MMatersk]

Originally Posted by Sacre

Hmm, I wouldn't want to make you all stunned at the level of education I have, so i'll spare the long list of courses/universities, programs etc.

Propane is a flammable, and it burns, your lungs are made of a material equal to nylon, which burns fast. If you breathe in propane not only will it make your leg vanish, it'll make you heavier then air! And on top of that, my good friend, it has a bad smell to it (Which is clearly the propane itself and not Dimethyl Sulfide)

Joking aside:
I believe the answers above mine made what you're asking pretty clear. In my point of view of course.

HAha i had a chuckle , thats funny.

[Sacre]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

dude thats really a bad joke, and kinda pointless to the topic.

Oh Relax, on a side note, your statement is a bit Contradictory isn't it?

[TokyoSeven]

I spoke with a fellow colleague today who is vastly more informed on the subject than I. We both agree that limited exposure is fairly harmless for the most part. So there shouldnt be any worry for anyone who operates a GBBR or a GBB on a regular basis.A large amount of propane taken into the lungs will cause oxygen displacement, but small amounts in well ventilated or open areas should be fine. We didnt have to much time to explore all the information appropriately, however we both still agree that unless you are huffing directly from the tank or sticking the mag in your mouth and pressing the valve release you should be fine.

[hutch1970]

Had a (severely disturbed) cousin who used to huff propane(really) and his face would be blue/purple from oxygen depravation. I imagine that on a cellular level, he was turning himself int a nice little bomb, if he were ever to light up a smoke. He's dead now, due to inhaling a train head-on.
My education is in the school of hard knocks, w/ a smattering of actual collegiate studies(general studies) and a shit-load of book reading in conjunction w/ friends who were more intelligent than myself, who were willing to impart their education to my retarded ass.
Nice avatar TS- beautiful blue pic.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

I spoke with a fellow colleague today who is vastly more informed on the subject than I. We both agree that limited exposure is fairly harmless for the most part. So there shouldnt be any worry for anyone who operates a GBBR or a GBB on a regular basis.A large amount of propane taken into the lungs will cause oxygen displacement, but small amounts in well ventilated or open areas should be fine. We didnt have to much time to explore all the information appropriately, however we both still agree that unless you are huffing directly from the tank or sticking the mag in your mouth and pressing the valve release you should be fine.

hate to say it, but I get headache when I run over 10 mags in 20 min outdoor running GBBR. (and refilling 3 propane bottles) probably not a good idea. I'm not sure if its the sulfur compound that makes me having headache or the propane, but all I know is don't shoot 10 mags in same spot...even outdoor.

[iamdecent]

Although i had not been to airsoft for long, i had fired a pistol before and they stink! Since sulfur is only a small portion of the actual gas volume, it is quite possible that the the sheer amount of propane in the air is giving you the headache. This situation in a windless environment.

You can get headaches from sniffing in too much of anything. I get a headache when i step inside my mom's car because she sets her air freshener on Max setting, which makes the car smell very pungent.

[TokyoSeven]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

hate to say it, but I get headache when I run over 10 mags in 20 min outdoor running GBBR. (and refilling 3 propane bottles) probably not a good idea. I'm not sure if its the sulfur compound that makes me having headache or the propane, but all I know is don't shoot 10 mags in same spot...even outdoor.

With the conditions you described dizziness or the sensation of being light headed are entirely possible as well as headaches resulting from either. Even in an outdoor location its possible to suffer from those affects with enough gas being dispersed around you. Although its very possible that the over whelming odor of sulfur could also be causing you headaches as well.