European and modern LMGs

Lord of Rebirth · March 1st, 2010, 01:27

Ok so I don't know if this should go here or in the airsoft gun thread but I'm interested it knowing about what kinda LMGs are available and possibly used by Germany or another European military. I have an odd idea for a special ops squad based around some less common weapons and I want to have an LMG for fire support use eventually.

R.I.T.Z · March 1st, 2010, 01:31

I'm assuming you mean made for airsoft?

L86 (i've only seen a few) basically a L85 with a bipod, longer barrel and girp on the stock
MG36 (few companies make them)
M249 (many models available)
Hbar (you can modify an aug)

now I don't know if the following would fall in there too but
RPK
RPD

QuiN · March 1st, 2010, 18:53

There's no LMG36 used by the Bundeswehr, just the G36 with Drummag and bipod - which is a pain in the a** due to complicated reloading of the mag and feeding issues. The so called LMG36 was proposed as a light machine gun with a heavier barrel (to handle the ROF; no possibility to change the barrel at all), but it was rejected by the Bundeswehr. The MG4 is filling the gap, but no airsoftversion so far.

Jimski · March 1st, 2010, 19:13

is the HK 21 lmg still around? dunno who uses it...

Shooting Addict · March 1st, 2010, 19:33

Heres some of the LMG's that the Germans have used or are using...
-MG3
-MG4
-HK21
-HK GMG
I'm not sure if any of these are made in airsoft flavor but it's worth looking into especially the MG3 which is used by Special Forces.

Jimski · March 1st, 2010, 20:47

hk21 exists in airsoft for sure.

QuiN · March 2nd, 2010, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimski

is the hk 21 lmg still around? Dunno who uses it...

ksk & gsg9.

Mr.Shiney · March 2nd, 2010, 10:42

FN MAG 58 is a very common MG, it is being used by many militaries around the world, UK, USA, Canada, and other nations in NATO.

ThunderCactus · March 2nd, 2010, 18:32

RPK isnt a machinegun, L86 isn't a machinegun, MG36 isn't a machinegun, HBar isn't a machinegun.

The fact that we even allow the MG36 to be used as an MG in airsoft just boggles my mind. Just because somebody saw a picture of Germans using a C-mag on a rifle with a heavy barrel they thought it was a freakin machinegun?
It's a squad support weapon, machineguns have quick swap barrels and fire from open bolts. When making an airsoft MG, those are the two standards that the real steel weapon should meet.

Danke · March 2nd, 2010, 19:27

You might want to think over that open bolt requirement. Someone will come in here and start listing stuff off.

LMG - Light Machine Gun. Something like a SAW or RPK. Bipod, box mags or drums with belts or regular rifle magazines. Carried and used by one man.

GPMG - General Purpose Machine Gun. Like the FN Mag/M240 Getting heavier now and belt fed. More of a support weapon used in a fixed role maybe on a tripod. Now you're talking about 2 men a gunner and a loader/carrier of said tripod or more ammo.

HMG - Heavy Machine Gun. Like a Bowning M2 you're talking about 120 lbs and a vehicle or a 3 man team.

If you really get irked by a guy with a G36C and a drum mag calling himself a support weapon write the rules so he has to lug along a loader with him, and if either member of the team catches one they're both out of action.

Mr.Shiney · March 2nd, 2010, 19:35

The L86 or AUG BAR or Modernized Bren or RPK would be considered an LAR - Light Automatic Rifle. Yes it is a term that is a throw back to the 1960's as the LAR was the SAW of that period when a riflemen either carried and Assault Rifle (M16, AKM) or Main Battle Rifle (FN FAL, M14). Today you could consider them a Light Support Weapon, the bastard cousin to the SAW.

ThunderCactus · March 3rd, 2010, 00:59

They really need their own classification, because they are support weapons, but in no means are they machine guns.
If you suppress with a gun that fires from a closed bolt, as you would with a gun that fires from an open bolt, it's going to get significantly hotter between bursts. Which is fine if you have a quick swapping barrel, but you don't.
RPK's and MG36's were just meant to fire more often and be a lighter alternative to an LMG, yes they had longer mags, but they weren't belt fed from a box. They just use the C-mag on the G36 because reloading takes precious time you could spend shooting your target.
I mean, just because you have lots of ammo and can suppress a target, doesn't make your gun an LMG.
My HK11E was an LMG since it's real steel counterpart has quick swapping barrels, yeah okay it's a rare example of an MG that fires from a closed bolt, but it was a purpose built machinegun. Well I was still using mags, I had a drum but never put it on because the HK11E uses mags, not drums or C-mags.
Like the Colt IAR. It's an M16 that fires from an open bolt in full auto. It still uses 30 round mags, it just goes through more of them, faster.
Maybe I'm just too into the milsim thing, but I just hate seeing an L86 with a high rate of fire and a C-mag on it. Even the brits don't use it like that lol

Danke · March 3rd, 2010, 01:26

I agree, I don't want see a MP5 with a drum mag. The open vs closed bolt deal isn't a deal breaker in a support weapon in my books though.

skalnok · March 3rd, 2010, 02:08

Quote:

They really need their own classification, because they are support weapons, but in no means are they machine guns.
If you suppress with a gun that fires from a closed bolt, as you would with a gun that fires from an open bolt, it's going to get significantly hotter between bursts. Which is fine if you have a quick swapping barrel, but you don't.
RPK's and MG36's were just meant to fire more often and be a lighter alternative to an LMG, yes they had longer mags, but they weren't belt fed from a box. They just use the C-mag on the G36 because reloading takes precious time you could spend shooting your target.
I mean, just because you have lots of ammo and can suppress a target, doesn't make your gun an LMG.
My HK11E was an LMG since it's real steel counterpart has quick swapping barrels, yeah okay it's a rare example of an MG that fires from a closed bolt, but it was a purpose built machinegun. Well I was still using mags, I had a drum but never put it on because the HK11E uses mags, not drums or C-mags.
Like the Colt IAR. It's an M16 that fires from an open bolt in full auto. It still uses 30 round mags, it just goes through more of them, faster.
Maybe I'm just too into the milsim thing, but I just hate seeing an L86 with a high rate of fire and a C-mag on it. Even the brits don't use it like that lol

i can live with this. but i have one question... can i use a g36k with a beta c mag, i wouldnt call it an lmg but that is how it is issued to german special forces.

ThunderCactus · March 3rd, 2010, 18:12

Real steel drums don't hold 2500 rounds. But you have to ask, is it on there because they're using that ammo to suppress? Or is it on there because they don't want to reload as often?
Using a drum on a rifle is like using a midcap on an airsoft gun, except a real gun may overheat if you shot off the whole drum in one burst. But some people just want to reload less without having to wind a hicap.
The only reason we let LMG's in airsoft have 2500 round box mags is to account for the fact that BB's don't cut through bush like real bullets, and in theory you could actually have a 2500 round belt.

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March 1st, 2010, 01:27	#1
Lord of Rebirth Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC	European and modern LMGs Ok so I don't know if this should go here or in the airsoft gun thread but I'm interested it knowing about what kinda LMGs are available and possibly used by Germany or another European military. I have an odd idea for a special ops squad based around some less common weapons and I want to have an LMG for fire support use eventually.

March 1st, 2010, 18:53	#3
QuiN Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Made in Germany	There's no LMG36 used by the Bundeswehr, just the G36 with Drummag and bipod - which is a pain in the a** due to complicated reloading of the mag and feeding issues. The so called LMG36 was proposed as a light machine gun with a heavier barrel (to handle the ROF; no possibility to change the barrel at all), but it was rejected by the Bundeswehr. The MG4 is filling the gap, but no airsoftversion so far. Last edited by QuiN; March 1st, 2010 at 18:57..

March 1st, 2010, 19:13	#4
Jimski Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Montreal	is the HK 21 lmg still around? dunno who uses it... __________________

March 1st, 2010, 01:31	#2
R.I.T.Z Crackers Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Shwa	I'm assuming you mean made for airsoft? L86 (i've only seen a few) basically a L85 with a bipod, longer barrel and girp on the stock MG36 (few companies make them) M249 (many models available) Hbar (you can modify an aug) now I don't know if the following would fall in there too but RPK RPD

March 1st, 2010, 20:47	#6
Jimski Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Montreal	hk21 exists in airsoft for sure. __________________

March 2nd, 2010, 10:42	#8
Mr.Shiney Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: London,Ontario	FN MAG 58 is a very common MG, it is being used by many militaries around the world, UK, USA, Canada, and other nations in NATO. __________________ 6 Section, 2 Forward Observation Unit Airborne, Royal Artillery Level 2 Certified BA Sniper Sniper Instructor (Fieldcraft)

March 2nd, 2010, 18:32	#9
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	RPK isnt a machinegun, L86 isn't a machinegun, MG36 isn't a machinegun, HBar isn't a machinegun. The fact that we even allow the MG36 to be used as an MG in airsoft just boggles my mind. Just because somebody saw a picture of Germans using a C-mag on a rifle with a heavy barrel they thought it was a freakin machinegun? It's a squad support weapon, machineguns have quick swap barrels and fire from open bolts. When making an airsoft MG, those are the two standards that the real steel weapon should meet.

March 2nd, 2010, 19:27	#10
Danke Prancercise Guru Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Danger Zone	You might want to think over that open bolt requirement. Someone will come in here and start listing stuff off. LMG - Light Machine Gun. Something like a SAW or RPK. Bipod, box mags or drums with belts or regular rifle magazines. Carried and used by one man. GPMG - General Purpose Machine Gun. Like the FN Mag/M240 Getting heavier now and belt fed. More of a support weapon used in a fixed role maybe on a tripod. Now you're talking about 2 men a gunner and a loader/carrier of said tripod or more ammo. HMG - Heavy Machine Gun. Like a Bowning M2 you're talking about 120 lbs and a vehicle or a 3 man team. If you really get irked by a guy with a G36C and a drum mag calling himself a support weapon write the rules so he has to lug along a loader with him, and if either member of the team catches one they're both out of action. __________________ Airsoft, where nothing is hurt but feelings.

March 2nd, 2010, 19:35	#11
Mr.Shiney Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: London,Ontario	The L86 or AUG BAR or Modernized Bren or RPK would be considered an LAR - Light Automatic Rifle. Yes it is a term that is a throw back to the 1960's as the LAR was the SAW of that period when a riflemen either carried and Assault Rifle (M16, AKM) or Main Battle Rifle (FN FAL, M14). Today you could consider them a Light Support Weapon, the bastard cousin to the SAW. __________________ 6 Section, 2 Forward Observation Unit Airborne, Royal Artillery Level 2 Certified BA Sniper Sniper Instructor (Fieldcraft)

March 3rd, 2010, 00:59	#12
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	They really need their own classification, because they are support weapons, but in no means are they machine guns. If you suppress with a gun that fires from a closed bolt, as you would with a gun that fires from an open bolt, it's going to get significantly hotter between bursts. Which is fine if you have a quick swapping barrel, but you don't. RPK's and MG36's were just meant to fire more often and be a lighter alternative to an LMG, yes they had longer mags, but they weren't belt fed from a box. They just use the C-mag on the G36 because reloading takes precious time you could spend shooting your target. I mean, just because you have lots of ammo and can suppress a target, doesn't make your gun an LMG. My HK11E was an LMG since it's real steel counterpart has quick swapping barrels, yeah okay it's a rare example of an MG that fires from a closed bolt, but it was a purpose built machinegun. Well I was still using mags, I had a drum but never put it on because the HK11E uses mags, not drums or C-mags. Like the Colt IAR. It's an M16 that fires from an open bolt in full auto. It still uses 30 round mags, it just goes through more of them, faster. Maybe I'm just too into the milsim thing, but I just hate seeing an L86 with a high rate of fire and a C-mag on it. Even the brits don't use it like that lol

March 3rd, 2010, 01:26	#13
Danke Prancercise Guru Trader rating Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Danger Zone	I agree, I don't want see a MP5 with a drum mag. The open vs closed bolt deal isn't a deal breaker in a support weapon in my books though. __________________ Airsoft, where nothing is hurt but feelings.

March 3rd, 2010, 18:12	#15
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Real steel drums don't hold 2500 rounds. But you have to ask, is it on there because they're using that ammo to suppress? Or is it on there because they don't want to reload as often? Using a drum on a rifle is like using a midcap on an airsoft gun, except a real gun may overheat if you shot off the whole drum in one burst. But some people just want to reload less without having to wind a hicap. The only reason we let LMG's in airsoft have 2500 round box mags is to account for the fact that BB's don't cut through bush like real bullets, and in theory you could actually have a 2500 round belt.

European and modern LMGs

Western Europe